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Thread: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up

Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Wed, Sep 12 2018 3:06PM
Subject: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
No previous message | Next message →

Hi all,

I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
letters, and even the Minus sign.

We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
math expressions.

Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?

As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
to get it right first time wherever possible.

Cheers, Isabel

From: Jim Allan
Date: Wed, Sep 12 2018 3:37PM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

Screen readers vary in their ability to read special symbols. See this
thread on webaim
https://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=6265

JAWS has a Dictionary Manager that you may be able to add special symbols
NVDA has something similar
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#SpeechDictionaries

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:07 PM Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> letters, and even the Minus sign.
>
> We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> math expressions.
>
> Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
>
> As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> to get it right first time wherever possible.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
> > > > >

--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

From: Peter Krautzberger
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 12:40AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

> Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?

While I'm biased (since I managed the project when this was developed),
MathJax's Accessibility Extensions [1] leverage MathJax's sister
project, Speech-Rule-Engine [2] (originally part of ChromeVox) providing
the best available voicing and exploration on all screenreaders (no
MathML needed); SRE is also currently implementing Nemeth Braille
support.

The developers are also active on the W3C MathOnWeb Community
Group [3] (another disclaimer: I co-chair the CG) to further improve
the necessary standards and technologies.

Best regards,
Peter.

[1] https://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/misc/accessibility-features.html
[2] https://github.com/zorkow/speech-rule-engine
[3] https://w3c.github.io/mathonwebpages/

2018-09-12 23:37 GMT+02:00 Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> Screen readers vary in their ability to read special symbols. See this
> thread on webaim
> https://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=6265
>
> JAWS has a Dictionary Manager that you may be able to add special symbols
> NVDA has something similar
> https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#
> SpeechDictionaries
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:07 PM Isabel Holdsworth <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> > the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> > letters, and even the Minus sign.
> >
> > We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> > and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> > MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> > some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> > and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> > number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> > some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> > math expressions.
> >
> > Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> > well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
> >
> > As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> > is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> > to get it right first time wherever possible.
> >
> > Cheers, Isabel
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > >

From: Noble,Stephen L.
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 6:30AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

For math speech to work as it should in NVDA, be sure you have MathPlayer installed on the same computer: https://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/download.htm

VoiceOver "should" work fine...unless something got broken in a recent release...I haven't tried it with math for the last several months.

One thing I will add is that there are often more than one way that an expression might be coded that "looks" OK, but is not necessarily correct. I suggest you follow the examples found in the MathML in DAISY Structure Guidelines: http://www.daisy.org/z3986/structure/SG-DAISY3/part2-math.html

You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their MathML Best Practices page: https://www.hawkeslearning.com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html

While I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest, it does show how some people approach using MathML in the current reality of today's imperfect web.

Best regards,

--Steve Noble

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
502-969-3088

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 5:06 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up

Hi all,

I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
letters, and even the Minus sign.

We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
math expressions.

Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?

As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
to get it right first time wherever possible.

Cheers, Isabel

From: Peter Krautzberger
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 7:34AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

Steve wrote:

> You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
MathML Best Practices page:
https://www.hawkeslearning.com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html

I would not follow the advice regarding "MathML Cloud". That service is
using a very outdated version of both MathJax and Speech Rule Engine that
should be avoided. You can simply use SRE and MathJax-node for server-side
processing.

Regards,
Peter.

2018-09-13 14:30 GMT+02:00 Noble,Stephen L. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> For math speech to work as it should in NVDA, be sure you have MathPlayer
> installed on the same computer: https://www.dessci.com/en/
> products/mathplayer/download.htm
>
>
> VoiceOver "should" work fine...unless something got broken in a recent
> release...I haven't tried it with math for the last several months.
>
>
> One thing I will add is that there are often more than one way that an
> expression might be coded that "looks" OK, but is not necessarily correct.
> I suggest you follow the examples found in the MathML in DAISY Structure
> Guidelines: http://www.daisy.org/z3986/structure/SG-DAISY3/part2-math.html
>
>
> You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
> MathML Best Practices page: https://www.hawkeslearning.
> com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html
>
> While I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest, it does show
> how some people approach using MathML in the current reality of today's
> imperfect web.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --Steve Noble
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 502-969-3088
>
>
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 5:06 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> letters, and even the Minus sign.
>
> We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> math expressions.
>
> Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
>
> As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> to get it right first time wherever possible.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
> > > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=TBizHrop7xEd37_99TX_rxw-83E_
> dwVhd8dtYqo5huU&e=
> > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=rxKW-
> xT260OEgV4Er7R0PbiSEu4FmeA0p-1kJm_uXMY&e=
> > > > > >

From: Noble,Stephen L.
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 7:45AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes...as I stated, "I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest..." So, thank you Peter for bringing up one point they make which is not the best. As most things go on the web, guidance for best practices is often a moving target.

--Steve Noble

From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Peter Krautzberger < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:34 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up

Steve wrote:

> You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
MathML Best Practices page:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hawkeslearning.com_Accessibility_guides_mathml-5Fintro.html&d=DwICAg&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=pW_5nk08TgfpwEUCEQTu6KG7qO3W4tMHqLh7rhp2VTQ&e=

I would not follow the advice regarding "MathML Cloud". That service is
using a very outdated version of both MathJax and Speech Rule Engine that
should be avoided. You can simply use SRE and MathJax-node for server-side
processing.

Regards,
Peter.

2018-09-13 14:30 GMT+02:00 Noble,Stephen L. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> For math speech to work as it should in NVDA, be sure you have MathPlayer
> installed on the same computer: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dessci.com_en_&d=DwICAg&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=6x2ayQjX-iDfiFrsRiNWmn95iswuRbvq-2u64eTAUWg&e=
> products/mathplayer/download.htm
>
>
> VoiceOver "should" work fine...unless something got broken in a recent
> release...I haven't tried it with math for the last several months.
>
>
> One thing I will add is that there are often more than one way that an
> expression might be coded that "looks" OK, but is not necessarily correct.
> I suggest you follow the examples found in the MathML in DAISY Structure
> Guidelines: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.daisy.org_z3986_structure_SG-2DDAISY3_part2-2Dmath.html&d=DwICAg&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=o78-PnNa04mYaRyAguu_Cni67XNj7na3OTRUFf4r6nU&e=
>
>
> You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
> MathML Best Practices page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hawkeslearning&d=DwICAg&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=bSX_XHpq7O2w-r1nj3XOi3csYHUs6UbcM5AKUFlWg-w&e=.
> com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html
>
> While I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest, it does show
> how some people approach using MathML in the current reality of today's
> imperfect web.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --Steve Noble
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 502-969-3088
>
>
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 5:06 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> letters, and even the Minus sign.
>
> We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> math expressions.
>
> Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
>
> As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> to get it right first time wherever possible.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
> > > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=TBizHrop7xEd37_99TX_rxw-83E_
> dwVhd8dtYqo5huU&e=
> > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=rxKW-
> xT260OEgV4Er7R0PbiSEu4FmeA0p-1kJm_uXMY&e=
> > > > > >

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 8:32AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello,

My experience with VoiceOver is that it only works well with MathML when navigating using DOM mode which I believe is the default. When navigate web pages via Groups is selected I have found items to be missing. I have not tried at all with the public betas of MacOS that should hit the main distribution in a few weeks.

> On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:30 AM, Noble,Stephen L. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> For math speech to work as it should in NVDA, be sure you have MathPlayer installed on the same computer: https://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/download.htm
>
>
> VoiceOver "should" work fine...unless something got broken in a recent release...I haven't tried it with math for the last several months.
>
>
> One thing I will add is that there are often more than one way that an expression might be coded that "looks" OK, but is not necessarily correct. I suggest you follow the examples found in the MathML in DAISY Structure Guidelines: http://www.daisy.org/z3986/structure/SG-DAISY3/part2-math.html
>
>
> You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their MathML Best Practices page: https://www.hawkeslearning.com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html
>
> While I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest, it does show how some people approach using MathML in the current reality of today's imperfect web.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --Steve Noble
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 502-969-3088
>
>
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 5:06 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> letters, and even the Minus sign.
>
> We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> math expressions.
>
> Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
>
> As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> to get it right first time wherever possible.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
> > > > > > > >

From: Peter Krautzberger
Date: Thu, Sep 13 2018 1:00PM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
← Previous message | Next message →

Steve wrote:

> Yes...as I stated, "I don't necessarily agree with everything they
suggest..."

Right, sorry, I had not meant to imply otherwise.

Best,
Peter.

2018-09-13 15:45 GMT+02:00 Noble,Stephen L. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> Yes...as I stated, "I don't necessarily agree with everything they
> suggest..." So, thank you Peter for bringing up one point they make which
> is not the best. As most things go on the web, guidance for best practices
> is often a moving target.
>
>
> --Steve Noble
>
>
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> Peter Krautzberger < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:34 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> > You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
> MathML Best Practices page:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
> hawkeslearning.com_Accessibility_guides_mathml-5Fintro.html&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=pW_5nk08TgfpwEUCEQTu6KG7qO3W4tMHqLh7rhp2VTQ&e=
>
> I would not follow the advice regarding "MathML Cloud". That service is
> using a very outdated version of both MathJax and Speech Rule Engine that
> should be avoided. You can simply use SRE and MathJax-node for server-side
> processing.
>
> Regards,
> Peter.
>
> 2018-09-13 14:30 GMT+02:00 Noble,Stephen L. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
>
> > For math speech to work as it should in NVDA, be sure you have MathPlayer
> > installed on the same computer: https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.dessci.com_en_&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=6x2ayQjX-iDfiFrsRiNWmn95iswuRbvq-2u64eTAUWg&e=
> > products/mathplayer/download.htm
> >
> >
> > VoiceOver "should" work fine...unless something got broken in a recent
> > release...I haven't tried it with math for the last several months.
> >
> >
> > One thing I will add is that there are often more than one way that an
> > expression might be coded that "looks" OK, but is not necessarily
> correct.
> > I suggest you follow the examples found in the MathML in DAISY Structure
> > Guidelines: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> daisy.org_z3986_structure_SG-2DDAISY3_part2-2Dmath.html&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=o78-PnNa04mYaRyAguu_Cni67XNj7na3OTRUFf4r6nU&e=
> >
> >
> > You might also want to consult the advice provided by Hawkes on their
> > MathML Best Practices page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hawkeslearning&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=bSX_XHpq7O2w-r1nj3XOi3csYHUs6UbcM5AKUFlWg-w&e=.
> > com/Accessibility/guides/mathml_intro.html
> >
> > While I don't necessarily agree with everything they suggest, it does
> show
> > how some people approach using MathML in the current reality of today's
> > imperfect web.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > --Steve Noble
> >
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > 502-969-3088
> >
> >
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> > Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 5:06 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm a bit late to the math party, but we're struggling to figure out
> > the best way to mark up math operations like fractions, indices, Greek
> > letters, and even the Minus sign.
> >
> > We have the Wiris MathML editor plugged into one of our text editors,
> > and it seems to do a really good job of encoding raw characters into
> > MathML. For the most part it works well with JAWS, but NVDA misses
> > some vital information, such as the "divided by" between the numerator
> > and denominator of a fraction, or the "to the power of" between a
> > number and its index. And VoiceOver isn't speaking anything at all for
> > some reason, although it's apparently supposed to work with "simple"
> > math expressions.
> >
> > Is there a newer and/or more robust way to express math that works
> > well with more access technologies than MathML seems to?
> >
> > As always, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Accessibility
> > is becoming a higher priority in the company I work for, and I want us
> > to get it right first time wherever possible.
> >
> > Cheers, Isabel
> > > > > com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=LAxYDAbJfj6AfTzxoJH0NEKsyaC3Erwg1ZbW-huY3kc&e=.
> > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=
> > OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> > 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> > qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=
> TBizHrop7xEd37_99TX_rxw-83E_
> > dwVhd8dtYqo5huU&e=
> > > urldefense.proofpoint&d=DwICAg&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTj
> S-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=
> LAxYDAbJfj6AfTzxoJH0NEKsyaC3Erwg1ZbW-huY3kc&e=.
> > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=
> > OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> > 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=
> > qFEj6ecZDeBYiLXsNIJncfcUejiLNji5Z61ada70oVQ&s=rxKW-
> > xT260OEgV4Er7R0PbiSEu4FmeA0p-1kJm_uXMY&e=
> > > > > > > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=UCXUwEIwWMamKdkLRAbY7QGSYbL4sx2GE5vu0wLe5y8&e=
> > > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=HQ-HU_MYYuHsWBKHhwzbCl-0LFf1jZpHTmD8n19cO4U&e=
> > > >
> > > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=UCXUwEIwWMamKdkLRAbY7QGSYbL4sx2GE5vu0wLe5y8&e=
> > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=
> OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=
> 67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=OMRjgnEluQLOhq084qRw92JAxSf-
> 1GlEDi-sRvif1Pw&s=HQ-HU_MYYuHsWBKHhwzbCl-0LFf1jZpHTmD8n19cO4U&e=
> > > > > >

From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2018 2:58AM
Subject: Re: Math and the most accessible way to mark it up
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Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

On reflection, I think the best thing is to create an equation editor
that presents pure MathML unless it detects Safari, in which case
it'll present a transcription of the MathML.

If I come up with a solution that seems to work well across most
screenreaders, I'll update this thread.

Cheers, Isabel