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Thread: SmartArt and Alt Text
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Lori Schulze
Date: Wed, Feb 01 2023 2:30PM
Subject: SmartArt and Alt Text
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I'm trying to find out if alt text should be added to SmartArt, either in
Word or PowerPoint. I have found conflicting answers.
I'm not sure how AT users interact with SmartArt. If it does need alt text,
should it be applied to the individual components?
Any guidance is appreciated. Thank you.
*Lori Schulze*
Center for Educational Networking (CEN)
6412 Centurion Drive, Suite 100
Lansing, MI 48917
517-908-3904
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | www.cenmi.org
*The Center for Educational Networking is an Individuals with Disabilities
Education Act (IDEA) Grant Funded Initiative through the Michigan
Department of Education, Office of Special Education.*
From: nick
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 2:22AM
Subject: Re: SmartArt and Alt Text
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I'm working on some PowerPoint accessibility for a client and finding that
screen reader behaviour with Smart Art and grouped shapes in general is
quite poor. I'm using PowerPoint 365 on Windows 10.
When navigating to a piece of SmartArt with NVDA 2022 it just announces
'shape' and does not mention any text within the SmartArt. Pressing Enter
starts navigation within the SmartArt, then the Tab key to move from element
to element, but again there is no announcement of any text. I've not done
exhaustive testing, but there's no reason to believe the behaviour will be
much different with different types.
JAWS 2023 announces the text of SmartArt (in its entirety). Again, pressing
Enter enters navigation and as you move from block to block with Tab, JAWS
announces the text, along with heading/list level info, and sometimes
numerous instances of 'blank'. The reading order is often incorrect and
there's no way to change it because the Reading Order pane treats it as a
single object.
There is no semantic information about the structure of the SmartArt (not
that I would really expect this), so users have no idea what how each piece
relates to each other (e.g. whether there's a hierarchical relationship,
whether it's a linear process, etc). You could add alt text, as this is read
out before the text contained within the SmartArt, and this may or may not
clarify - it all depends on the specific diagram and its complexity.
I don't like using SmartArt in general as it doesn't allow me the level of
fine tuning I need in layout. I would generally create individual shapes to
build up a diagram, but that itself has issues. For instance. If you group a
bunch of shapes and provide suitable alt text for this group, both JAWS and
NVDA then navigate through the individual elements within that group and
announce what they are, even if they are individually marked as decorative.
It's potentially very confusing for the user. A quick workaround for a
multi-component shape is to create and group the elements, then use
PowerPoint's in-built 'Save as picture' functionality to create a png (you
can do the same thing with SmartArt too). Then insert the png, add alt text,
and delete the original version. You could of course create the image in a
proper illustration package as you'll have more control over image quality,
but this is a quick way round if you don't have access/time for that.
Nick
- - -
Nick Bromley
Director & Accessibility Consultant
Red Kite Digital Accessibility Ltd
From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 2:27AM
Subject: Re: SmartArt and Alt Text
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I have only done a little testing of Smart Art, but everything I have seen supports what Nick says.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
From: Karen McCall
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 6:38AM
Subject: Re: SmartArt and Alt Text
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I've written about this and suggest that you create your SmartArt in the application so that the colours and fonts match the Word or PowerPoint content, then select the SmartArt graphic, Cut it from the document, then paste it as a picture and give it Alt Text.
There are relationships between SmartArt pieces that cannot have Alt Text added so any relationship is lost, as has been mentioned.
As someone using JAWS, I can add the text parts and to some extent graphics for those that allow graphics but have no idea what the SmartArt really looks like or whether I'm representing the relationships correctly.
I'm using Microsoft 365 Insider Channel and this issue has been around as long as we've had SmartArt. It is the same problem with grouped shapes/connectors. Create the effect/organizational thing you want, group the objects, Select them, cut them from the content and paste as picture then give the picture Alt Text
Cheers, Karen
From: Lori Schulze
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 7:35AM
Subject: Re: SmartArt and Alt Text
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Thank you everyone for your insight and expertise. As always, it was
helpful.
*Lori Schulze* | Director
Center for Educational Networking (CEN)
6412 Centurion Drive, Suite 100
Lansing, MI 48917
517-908-3904
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | www.cenmi.org
*The Center for Educational Networking is an Individuals with Disabilities
Education Act (IDEA) Grant Funded Initiative through the Michigan
Department of Education, Office of Special Education.*
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:39 AM Karen McCall < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I've written about this and suggest that you create your SmartArt in the
> application so that the colours and fonts match the Word or PowerPoint
> content, then select the SmartArt graphic, Cut it from the document, then
> paste it as a picture and give it Alt Text.
>
> There are relationships between SmartArt pieces that cannot have Alt Text
> added so any relationship is lost, as has been mentioned.
>
> As someone using JAWS, I can add the text parts and to some extent
> graphics for those that allow graphics but have no idea what the SmartArt
> really looks like or whether I'm representing the relationships correctly.
>
> I'm using Microsoft 365 Insider Channel and this issue has been around as
> long as we've had SmartArt. It is the same problem with grouped
> shapes/connectors. Create the effect/organizational thing you want, group
> the objects, Select them, cut them from the content and paste as picture
> then give the picture Alt Text
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
From: Jonathan Whiting
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2023 2:34PM
Subject: Re: SmartArt and Alt Text
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This thread prompted some discussion within our group, which led me to do some testing of my own. As Nick and Karen already outlined, accessibility of SmartArt is a mess in Office, but I was curious about he accessibility of PDFs created from these files. I used Adobe PDFMaker (AKA the Acrobat tab) in Word and PowerPoint 365 for Windows for these tests.
In Word, SmartArt alt text was never preserved. The only technique that I could get to work was Karen's recommendation to cut and paste as a picture.
In PowerPoint, alt text added to the main SmartArt image was preserved in the PDF. That was the only positive thing uncovered in my testing. Alt text added to individual parts of a SmartArt graphic was lost, even when the main graphic did not have alt text.
Interestingly, if there was no alt text added in PowerPoint, then the text in the image was converted to the alt text. This technique should not be used in place of deliberate alt text--most SmartArt images convey more than what is contained in the text. Plus, the spacing between the blocks was often lost, causing words to run together.
Jon
Jonathan Whiting
Director of Training, WebAIM
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Lori Schulze < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 7:35 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] SmartArt and Alt Text
Thank you everyone for your insight and expertise. As always, it was
helpful.
*Lori Schulze* | Director
Center for Educational Networking (CEN)
6412 Centurion Drive, Suite 100
Lansing, MI 48917
517-908-3904
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | www.cenmi.org<;http://www.cenmi.org>;
*The Center for Educational Networking is an Individuals with Disabilities
Education Act (IDEA) Grant Funded Initiative through the Michigan
Department of Education, Office of Special Education.*
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:39 AM Karen McCall < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I've written about this and suggest that you create your SmartArt in the
> application so that the colours and fonts match the Word or PowerPoint
> content, then select the SmartArt graphic, Cut it from the document, then
> paste it as a picture and give it Alt Text.
>
> There are relationships between SmartArt pieces that cannot have Alt Text
> added so any relationship is lost, as has been mentioned.
>
> As someone using JAWS, I can add the text parts and to some extent
> graphics for those that allow graphics but have no idea what the SmartArt
> really looks like or whether I'm representing the relationships correctly.
>
> I'm using Microsoft 365 Insider Channel and this issue has been around as
> long as we've had SmartArt. It is the same problem with grouped
> shapes/connectors. Create the effect/organizational thing you want, group
> the objects, Select them, cut them from the content and paste as picture
> then give the picture Alt Text
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>