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Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2001 2:25PM
Subject: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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Hi,
I am about to check the Web AIM site for this information, but since I want to find an answer as quickly as possible for this question, I figure I ought to ask here as well.
We are using tables to create a scrollable multi-column list box. Most of the list box is accessible. The only part which isn't are the headings.
One of the requirements of the solution is that the column headings for this table should not scroll, though the contents should be able to do so. We found one way of doing this by making the column headings a separate table. Are there any ways to associate the column headings in one cell with the columns of another cell? In this very specific instance, the solution only needs to work within JAWS (3.7 or later.)
I know this may seem like a weird question.
Thanks!
Tim
Tim Harshbarger
Disability Support Services
State Farm Insurance Companies
Phone: (3090) 766-0154
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Paul Bohman
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2001 2:35PM
Subject: Re: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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Yes, you can associate table headers with cells of different columns. You would have to do something like this:

<table>
<tr>
<th id="header1">One</th>
<th id="header2">Two</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td headers="header2">Cell one</td>
<td headers="header1">Cell two</td>
</tr>
</table>

The above table would be a bit strange, because the headers are associated diagonally. The cell under the first header is actually associated with the second header. Is this a good thing. Almost always the answer is NO, it is not. Perhaps you have some special circumstance that would make this a good idea. I'd have to see an example to know for sure.

Your description of your project is vague enough that I'm not sure how else to answer at this point.
Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Utah State University
www.usu.edu

From: Michael Goddard
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2001 2:51PM
Subject: Re: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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Paul.

I believe Tim may have been looking at it like this

<table id="header">
<tr>
<th id="header1">One</th>
<th id="header2">Two</th>
</tr>
</table>

<table id="content">
<tr>
<td headers="header1">Cell One</td>
<td headers="header2">Cell Two</td>
</tr>
</table>

Now is there anyway of associating the td content of the "content" table with the corresponding headers of the "header" table.

Correct me if I snafu this one!

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Bohman
To: WebAIM forum
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Joining Column Headers with Columns

Yes, you can associate table headers with cells of different columns. You would have to do something like this:

<table>
<tr>
<th id="header1">One</th>
<th id="header2">Two</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td headers="header2">Cell one</td>
<td headers="header1">Cell two</td>
</tr>
</table>

The above table would be a bit strange, because the headers are associated diagonally. The cell under the first header is actually associated with the second header. Is this a good thing. Almost always the answer is NO, it is not. Perhaps you have some special circumstance that would make this a good idea. I'd have to see an example to know for sure.

Your description of your project is vague enough that I'm not sure how else to answer at this point.
Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Utah State University
www.usu.edu

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2001 3:12PM
Subject: Re: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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Paul,

Actually, we are looking to associate the information between 2 tables. The first table contains the headings. The second table contains the content.

Basically, we are trying to create an accessible scrolling multi-column list box. We want to try to find a replacement for an inaccessible MCLB (multi-column list box) object.

Sometimes, we have the need for list boxes that have multiple columns that allow users to view additional information about a potential selection. Unfortunately, the HTML standard list box is only good for situations where there is a single piece of data the user needs in order to make a decision.

Thanks!
Tim


Tim Harshbarger
Disability Support Services
State Farm Insurance Companies
Phone: (3090) 766-0154
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Paul Bohman
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2001 3:28PM
Subject: Re: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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[Tim] Actually, we are looking to associate the information between 2 tables. The first table contains the headings. The second table contains the content.

my response: Unfortunately, this would create invalid HTML. A heading only applies to the table that it belongs to. I suppose that some screen readers/speaking browsers might interpret it in the way that you want, but the results are bound to be unpredictable across versions, browsers, and adaptive technologies. I would strongly recommend against this. If you have only one target audience with only one browser version with one adaptive technology (e.g. Jaws 3.7), you can experiment and find out if it works for those limited circumstances. As long as you're sure that other scenarios don't exist for a particular page, then it would work for that audience. Otherwise your results will be mixed.

Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Utah State University
www.usu.edu

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2001 7:24PM
Subject: Re: Joining Column Headers with Columns
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Tim,
I agree with Paul