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From: Jim Homme
Date: Mon, Aug 09 2021 11:46AM
Subject: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
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Hi,
When a hyperlink leaves a site, as a screen reader user, I like to know somehow if that's the case, but I am trying to figure out if this is a WCAG requirement. I am so far coming up with no answer when looking at the guidelines. Can anyone please help?

Thanks.

Jim

=========Jim Homme
Senior Digital Accessibility Consultant
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
Support the dreams of independence through employment for students with disabilities with your Amazon purchases.
https://smile.amazon.com/ch/83-0988251

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Mon, Aug 09 2021 11:50AM
Subject: Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

hey Jim,

The technique "G201: Giving users advanced warning when opening a new
window <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G201.html>" says it's
connected to "Guideline 3.2: Make Web pages appear and operate in
predictable ways".

Is that helpful?

--
Sandy
sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com>
a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>


On 2021-08-09 1:46 p.m., Jim Homme wrote:
> Hi,
> When a hyperlink leaves a site, as a screen reader user, I like to know somehow if that's the case, but I am trying to figure out if this is a WCAG requirement. I am so far coming up with no answer when looking at the guidelines. Can anyone please help?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> =========> Jim Homme
> Senior Digital Accessibility Consultant
> Bender Consulting Services
> 412-787-8567
> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> Support the dreams of independence through employment for students with disabilities with your Amazon purchases.
> https://smile.amazon.com/ch/83-0988251
>
> > > >

From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Aug 09 2021 12:08PM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until AAA), not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There is no WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is really a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
Jared

From: Geetha Shamanna
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2021 4:52AM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages are simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?

Geetha
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site

G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until AAA), not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There is no WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is really a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
Jared

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2021 4:56AM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
and thus considered best practice).
If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
available.




On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages are
> simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
>
> Geetha
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jared
> Smith
> Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links
> Leave A Site
>
> G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until AAA),
> not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There is no
> WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is really
> a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
> Jared
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Max ability
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2021 7:14AM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

Agree with Jared. If the link navigates to an external website, opens in a
new browser window or links to a different format is not necessarily
mentioned to screen reader user as per WCAG requirement. This will
definitely enhance the user experience.
However, if the same information is available to someone who can see but
not available to screen reader it violates WCAG as Birkir mentioned.

Regards
Rakesh


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:26 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
> open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
> The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
> and thus considered best practice).
> If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
> identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
> in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
> available.
>
>
>
>
> On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages are
> > simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
> >
> > Geetha
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Jared
> > Smith
> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links
> > Leave A Site
> >
> > G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until
> AAA),
> > not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There is
> no
> > WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is
> really
> > a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
> > Jared
> > > > > archives at
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >

From: Sumit Patel
Date: Thu, Aug 12 2021 11:20PM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

If visual indication to indicate link will open in new page or PDF is
not conveyed to screen reader users, falls into 1.1.1,
Which SCs following violations will fall into?
1. Blue or Red color for a link has used to indicate this page is
selected (current page)

2. We have 3 buttons. "Details", "Review" and "Payment"
It is 3 steps. First user has to provide details, then review it and
at last do payment.
If user is in "Review" page,
"Details" button will be in blue color(completed)
"Review" button will be in white color(current page)
"Payment" will be in grey colore (disabled state)
screen reader will not read these states.
I was thinking 1.4.1 and failing it under this SC. Am I doing right?
If not, Please correct me
Waiting for answers.....

Regards,
Sumit.

On 10/08/2021, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Agree with Jared. If the link navigates to an external website, opens in a
> new browser window or links to a different format is not necessarily
> mentioned to screen reader user as per WCAG requirement. This will
> definitely enhance the user experience.
> However, if the same information is available to someone who can see but
> not available to screen reader it violates WCAG as Birkir mentioned.
>
> Regards
> Rakesh
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:26 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
>> open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
>> The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
>> and thus considered best practice).
>> If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
>> identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
>> in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
>> available.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages
>> > are
>> > simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
>> >
>> > Geetha
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
>> Jared
>> > Smith
>> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links
>> > Leave A Site
>> >
>> > G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until
>> AAA),
>> > not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There is
>> no
>> > WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is
>> really
>> > a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
>> > Jared
>> > >> > >> archives at
>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >

From: Max ability
Date: Tue, Aug 17 2021 7:52PM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes Summit, Primarily its a failure of 1.4.1 Use of color.

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:50 AM Sumit Patel < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> If visual indication to indicate link will open in new page or PDF is
> not conveyed to screen reader users, falls into 1.1.1,
> Which SCs following violations will fall into?
> 1. Blue or Red color for a link has used to indicate this page is
> selected (current page)
>
> 2. We have 3 buttons. "Details", "Review" and "Payment"
> It is 3 steps. First user has to provide details, then review it and
> at last do payment.
> If user is in "Review" page,
> "Details" button will be in blue color(completed)
> "Review" button will be in white color(current page)
> "Payment" will be in grey colore (disabled state)
> screen reader will not read these states.
> I was thinking 1.4.1 and failing it under this SC. Am I doing right?
> If not, Please correct me
> Waiting for answers.....
>
> Regards,
> Sumit.
>
> On 10/08/2021, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Agree with Jared. If the link navigates to an external website, opens in
> a
> > new browser window or links to a different format is not necessarily
> > mentioned to screen reader user as per WCAG requirement. This will
> > definitely enhance the user experience.
> > However, if the same information is available to someone who can see but
> > not available to screen reader it violates WCAG as Birkir mentioned.
> >
> > Regards
> > Rakesh
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:26 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
> >> open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
> >> The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
> >> and thus considered best practice).
> >> If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
> >> identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
> >> in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
> >> available.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> > I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages
> >> > are
> >> > simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
> >> >
> >> > Geetha
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf
> Of
> >> Jared
> >> > Smith
> >> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When
> Links
> >> > Leave A Site
> >> >
> >> > G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until
> >> AAA),
> >> > not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There
> is
> >> no
> >> > WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is
> >> really
> >> > a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
> >> > Jared
> >> > > >> > > >> archives at
> >> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:56PM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | Next message →

It's 2 failures.
1.4.1 - using color alone as information
1.3.1 - not providing a text or programmatic equivalent for visual information.

I would fix it by:
* Adding icons to indicate completed, current and not done (in
addition to color)
* Adding alt text="completed" to done icons, aria-current="true" to
current step, it can be aruged that "not done" doesn't need any text
alternative.


On 8/17/21, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes Summit, Primarily its a failure of 1.4.1 Use of color.
>
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:50 AM Sumit Patel < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> If visual indication to indicate link will open in new page or PDF is
>> not conveyed to screen reader users, falls into 1.1.1,
>> Which SCs following violations will fall into?
>> 1. Blue or Red color for a link has used to indicate this page is
>> selected (current page)
>>
>> 2. We have 3 buttons. "Details", "Review" and "Payment"
>> It is 3 steps. First user has to provide details, then review it and
>> at last do payment.
>> If user is in "Review" page,
>> "Details" button will be in blue color(completed)
>> "Review" button will be in white color(current page)
>> "Payment" will be in grey colore (disabled state)
>> screen reader will not read these states.
>> I was thinking 1.4.1 and failing it under this SC. Am I doing right?
>> If not, Please correct me
>> Waiting for answers.....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sumit.
>>
>> On 10/08/2021, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > Agree with Jared. If the link navigates to an external website, opens in
>> a
>> > new browser window or links to a different format is not necessarily
>> > mentioned to screen reader user as per WCAG requirement. This will
>> > definitely enhance the user experience.
>> > However, if the same information is available to someone who can see but
>> > not available to screen reader it violates WCAG as Birkir mentioned.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Rakesh
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:26 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
>> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> >
>> >> If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
>> >> open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
>> >> The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
>> >> and thus considered best practice).
>> >> If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
>> >> identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
>> >> in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
>> >> available.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> >> > I have come across web sites where links that point to external pages
>> >> > are
>> >> > simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
>> >> >
>> >> > Geetha
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf
>> Of
>> >> Jared
>> >> > Smith
>> >> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
>> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When
>> Links
>> >> > Leave A Site
>> >> >
>> >> > G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure until
>> >> AAA),
>> >> > not providing indications for links that go to external sites. There
>> is
>> >> no
>> >> > WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this is
>> >> really
>> >> > a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
>> >> > Jared
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> archives at
>> >> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: John Hicks
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2021 3:34AM
Subject: Re: [EXT]Requirement Or Nice To Have: When Links Leave A Site
← Previous message | No next message

Bonjour everyone

I rarely post here and it's usually to head into left-field so why change
now? To go back to the original question, and appealing to the hallowed
cybernetic principle of POSIWID ...one could argue that this situation
(off-site link not saying where it's pointing) is a failure of 2.4.4.

Yes, it's a usability issue in general because sighted users don't have
that information either ... and yet, web savvy sighted mouse users can see
the url of the link in the bottom left corner of the browser on link hover.

So there are grounds for comparing sighted and non sighted experiences,
albeit they have more to do with navigator behaviour and undoubtedly this
could be configured for screen readers somehow (vocalizing the url of
links).

https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/general/G91.html
"The description lets a user distinguish this link from links in the Web
page that lead to other destinations and helps the user determine whether
to follow the link."

An informed surfer makes the best decisions about which links to follow...





Le mer. 18 août 2021 à 04:56, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > a écrit :

> It's 2 failures.
> 1.4.1 - using color alone as information
> 1.3.1 - not providing a text or programmatic equivalent for visual
> information.
>
> I would fix it by:
> * Adding icons to indicate completed, current and not done (in
> addition to color)
> * Adding alt text="completed" to done icons, aria-current="true" to
> current step, it can be aruged that "not done" doesn't need any text
> alternative.
>
>
> On 8/17/21, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Yes Summit, Primarily its a failure of 1.4.1 Use of color.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:50 AM Sumit Patel <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> If visual indication to indicate link will open in new page or PDF is
> >> not conveyed to screen reader users, falls into 1.1.1,
> >> Which SCs following violations will fall into?
> >> 1. Blue or Red color for a link has used to indicate this page is
> >> selected (current page)
> >>
> >> 2. We have 3 buttons. "Details", "Review" and "Payment"
> >> It is 3 steps. First user has to provide details, then review it and
> >> at last do payment.
> >> If user is in "Review" page,
> >> "Details" button will be in blue color(completed)
> >> "Review" button will be in white color(current page)
> >> "Payment" will be in grey colore (disabled state)
> >> screen reader will not read these states.
> >> I was thinking 1.4.1 and failing it under this SC. Am I doing right?
> >> If not, Please correct me
> >> Waiting for answers.....
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Sumit.
> >>
> >> On 10/08/2021, Max ability < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> > Agree with Jared. If the link navigates to an external website, opens
> in
> >> a
> >> > new browser window or links to a different format is not necessarily
> >> > mentioned to screen reader user as per WCAG requirement. This will
> >> > definitely enhance the user experience.
> >> > However, if the same information is available to someone who can see
> but
> >> > not available to screen reader it violates WCAG as Birkir mentioned.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > Rakesh
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:26 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> >> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> If there is no visual indication of links that open in a new window,
> >> >> open a PDF file, or leave the site, WCAG does not require it.
> >> >> The closest it comes is WCAG 3.2.5 (which is a level AAA requirement,
> >> >> and thus considered best practice).
> >> >> If, however, there is a visual indication (icons or formatting)
> >> >> identifying links that do anything special, then WCAG SC 1.1.1 kicks
> >> >> in and requires that there is text or programmatic equivalent info
> >> >> available.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 8/10/21, Geetha Shamanna < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> >> > I have come across web sites where links that point to external
> pages
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > simply labelled 'opens in a new window'. Does that violate 2.4.4?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Geetha
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On
> Behalf
> >> Of
> >> >> Jared
> >> >> > Smith
> >> >> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:08 PM
> >> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXT] Re: Requirement Or Nice To Have: When
> >> Links
> >> >> > Leave A Site
> >> >> >
> >> >> > G201 is about opening new windows (which is not a WCAG failure
> until
> >> >> AAA),
> >> >> > not providing indications for links that go to external sites.
> There
> >> is
> >> >> no
> >> >> > WCAG requirement that links to external sites be indicated – this
> is
> >> >> really
> >> >> > a usability question rather than an accessibility question.
> >> >> > Jared
> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> archives at
> >> >> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >> > > >> >> >
> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >