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Thread: Jaws not opening links

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Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Mon, Oct 11 2021 12:11PM
Subject: Jaws not opening links
No previous message | Next message →

In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.

If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the
activate command will open the link.

However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on a
link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line
around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.

I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf, but
I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.

I've checked all my settings.
I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
I've reinstalled JAWS.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Mon, Oct 11 2021 12:18PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

It appears you could be the missing the Link - OBJR annotation discussed at https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/pdf/PDF11.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Laura Roberts
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:11 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.

If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the activate command will open the link.

However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on a link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.

I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf, but I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.

I've checked all my settings.
I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
I've reinstalled JAWS.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Mon, Oct 11 2021 12:44PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

Laura, if you could send me 1 or 2 of the problematic PDFs, we'll test the and see if indeed the Link-OBJR annotation is missing. In PDFs, that's the code that makes links accessible to assistive technologies.

Email me directly at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila via WebAIM-Forum
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:18 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Cc: Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

It appears you could be the missing the Link - OBJR annotation discussed at https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/pdf/PDF11.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Laura Roberts
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:11 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.

If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the activate command will open the link.

However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on a link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.

I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf, but I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.

I've checked all my settings.
I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
I've reinstalled JAWS.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Mon, Oct 11 2021 3:18PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

Nope. The tag is there and it passes the checkers.
As I said, I can open it with insert+F7 abt with a mouse click...just not
with the enter key.
Affecting ALL PDFs from any source so it's for sure not a tagging issue.
Something's up either with JAWS or Adobe reader...

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 2:18 PM Jonathan Avila via WebAIM-Forum <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> It appears you could be the missing the Link - OBJR annotation discussed
> at https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/pdf/PDF11.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Laura Roberts
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:11 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
> In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.
>
> If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the
> activate command will open the link.
>
> However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on a
> link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line
> around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.
>
> I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf, but
> I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.
>
> I've checked all my settings.
> I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
> I've reinstalled JAWS.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Mon, Oct 11 2021 3:20PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

Actually Bevi, can you send me a PDF? I've been trying my own going back
over a year and it's happening to all of them.

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 2:44 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Laura, if you could send me 1 or 2 of the problematic PDFs, we'll test the
> and see if indeed the Link-OBJR annotation is missing. In PDFs, that's the
> code that makes links accessible to assistive technologies.
>
> Email me directly at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> — — —
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> — — —
> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Jonathan Avila via WebAIM-Forum
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:18 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc: Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>
> It appears you could be the missing the Link - OBJR annotation discussed
> at https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/pdf/PDF11.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Laura Roberts
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:11 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
> In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.
>
> If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the
> activate command will open the link.
>
> However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on a
> link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line
> around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.
>
> I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf, but
> I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.
>
> I've checked all my settings.
> I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
> I've reinstalled JAWS.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Tue, Oct 12 2021 8:10AM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

I'm making progress troubleshooting.

It's definitely a JAWS issue.
I tried accessible PDFs from the government and had the same issue.

For the hell of it, I tried CTRL+ENTER and SHIFT+ENTER to open links, and
lo and behold, they both worked. But why?

JAWS is on default settings so I don't know what is going on. I just wrote
to Freedom Scientific and writing to the JAWS UK listserv as well.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 7:46 AM Laura Roberts < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I apologize Bevi.
>
> I did consider the current bug, but what doesn't make sense to me is that
> I'm having the issue in remediated PDFs that passed JAWS QC years ago.
> Basically, every tagged PDF I've ever saved in my PC going back 10 years.
> That's why I'm pretty sure it's not the tags. I think something is up with
> JAWS and/or Adobe Reader (which is what I use to do JAWS testing rather
> than Acrobat).
>
> I'm going to check a couple old government PDFs such as the HHS section
> 508 PDF in JAWS later this morning because I know they will be tagged
> correctly. If the problem occurs in them, then I'll know for sure it's
> definitely JAWS or Adobe reader.
>
> I can't pass along current PDFs I'm working on due to my NDA, but maybe I
> can strip out the identifying text from one and send it to you. My client
> is extremely paranoid about data security.
>
> Laura
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 8:27 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Actually, Laura, all of us on the Adobe Forums are UNpaid volunteer
>> experts. We donate our time and expertise to help our fellow members.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want my help or anyone else's on the forum, than make it easy for
>> us. We all have a full day of work to attend to, just like you.
>>
>>
>>
>> So send me a file that's not working for you and we'll test it here and
>> try to diagnose what's happening.
>>
>> There are problems from both the JAWS end, as well as with the latest
>> updates from MS Word, Adobe PDF Maker, Adobe InDesign, and Adobe Acrobat.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the most recent bugs, see:
>>
>> ·
>> https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/44270718-errors-links-in-pdf-made-from-word
>>
>> ·
>> https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/44183082-accessibility-errors-with-pdf-maker-update-sept-20
>>
>>
>>
>> *— — —*
>>
>> Bevi Chagnon *| *Designer, Accessibility Technician, Trainer* |*
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> *US delegate to the ISO committees for PDF and PDF/UA accessibility*
>>
>> *— — —*
>>
>> *PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing*
>>
>> consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
>>
>> *Upcoming classes* at www.PubCom.com/*classes*
>> <http://www.pubcom.com/classes>;
>>
>> *— — —*
>>
>> Latest blog-newsletter
>> <https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574> – *Simple Guide
>> to Writing Alt-Text
>> <https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Laura Roberts < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 5:20 PM
>> *To:* = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; WebAIM Discussion List <
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> *Subject:* Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually Bevi, can you send me a PDF? I've been trying my own going back
>> over a year and it's happening to all of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 2:44 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Laura, if you could send me 1 or 2 of the problematic PDFs, we'll test
>> the and see if indeed the Link-OBJR annotation is missing. In PDFs, that's
>> the code that makes links accessible to assistive technologies.
>>
>> Email me directly at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> — — —
>> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> — — —
>> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>> consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
>> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
>> — — —
>> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
>> Jonathan Avila via WebAIM-Forum
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:18 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Cc: Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>>
>> It appears you could be the missing the Link - OBJR annotation discussed
>> at https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/pdf/PDF11.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
>> Laura Roberts
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:11 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links
>>
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
>> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>> the content is safe.
>>
>>
>> In a properly tagged pdf, I am unable to open any links using JAWS.
>>
>> If I use insert + F7, I am able to pull up the list of links and the
>> activate command will open the link.
>>
>> However, in the pdf itself, if I click on enter, space, tab, whatever on
>> a link....it does nothing. After using tab, I do see a little dotted line
>> around the linked words, but other than that, nothing is happening.
>>
>> I thought maybe it was a problem with the tags in that particular pdf,
>> but I checked a bunch of other pdf's and it's happening universally.
>>
>> I've checked all my settings.
>> I've reinstalled Adobe Reader DC.
>> I've reinstalled JAWS.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!
>> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>>

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Oct 15 2021 11:12AM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

We are now experiencing the same sort of problems that Laura reported with regard to screen reader behaviour with PDFs. However, we are seeing slightly different behaviours on two different machines. The common factor is that the problems only started happening after the most recent Windows update, which in my case happened today.

We are seeing quite a number of adverse behaviours, such as:

1. NVDA reads all the content of a multi-page PDF, but the first page is displayed the whole time, even when other pages are being read.

2. In NVDA, the browse mode cursor is displayed around the entire page all the time. It no longer highlights the content that is being read. The cursor displays as expected on web pages.

3. I have a single-page PDF that contains one link. I cannot give it focus by pressing the Tab key. Instead, I have to press Shift+Tab.

4. As in Laura's case, links cannot be operated by pressing the Enter key, but they can be operated by pressing Shift+Enter. However, unlike Laura, I cannot operate the links using Ctrl+Enter.

I am conducting the majority of these tests with PDFs that we remediated a few months ago and were thoroughly tested with both JAWS and NVDA on this machine at the time. I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA and Adobe Reader, but this made no difference at all.

One of my colleagues has a PC that has not yet had the recent update, and it is not exhibiting any of these behaviours with the same documents - everything works as expected.

So what on earth have Microsoft done to cause this? Why do we see different bugs on different machines? And how soon will they fix it? In the meantime, I'm going to restore an old disk image and try to prevent it from doing a Windows update.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk
 
Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Fri, Oct 15 2021 11:38AM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks for confirming that, Steve.
When combined with Adobe's PDF updates over the past couple of weeks, services to those with disabilities has now become nearly non-existent.

Does anyone here have direct access to Microsoft's interior development teams and can pass these bug descriptions up to the powers that be?

—Bevi Chagnon
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 1:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

We are now experiencing the same sort of problems that Laura reported with regard to screen reader behaviour with PDFs. However, we are seeing slightly different behaviours on two different machines. The common factor is that the problems only started happening after the most recent Windows update, which in my case happened today.

We are seeing quite a number of adverse behaviours, such as:

1. NVDA reads all the content of a multi-page PDF, but the first page is displayed the whole time, even when other pages are being read.

2. In NVDA, the browse mode cursor is displayed around the entire page all the time. It no longer highlights the content that is being read. The cursor displays as expected on web pages.

3. I have a single-page PDF that contains one link. I cannot give it focus by pressing the Tab key. Instead, I have to press Shift+Tab.

4. As in Laura's case, links cannot be operated by pressing the Enter key, but they can be operated by pressing Shift+Enter. However, unlike Laura, I cannot operate the links using Ctrl+Enter.

I am conducting the majority of these tests with PDFs that we remediated a few months ago and were thoroughly tested with both JAWS and NVDA on this machine at the time. I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA and Adobe Reader, but this made no difference at all.

One of my colleagues has a PC that has not yet had the recent update, and it is not exhibiting any of these behaviours with the same documents - everything works as expected.

So what on earth have Microsoft done to cause this? Why do we see different bugs on different machines? And how soon will they fix it? In the meantime, I'm going to restore an old disk image and try to prevent it from doing a Windows update.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk

Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2

From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Fri, Oct 15 2021 1:23PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

You can send concerns to the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Or, if you are in an enterprise situation, the Enterprise Disability Desk can be summoned at:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Thanks!
David


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:39 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

Thanks for confirming that, Steve.
When combined with Adobe's PDF updates over the past couple of weeks, services to those with disabilities has now become nearly non-existent.

Does anyone here have direct access to Microsoft's interior development teams and can pass these bug descriptions up to the powers that be?

—Bevi Chagnon
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = — — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes — — — Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 1:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

We are now experiencing the same sort of problems that Laura reported with regard to screen reader behaviour with PDFs. However, we are seeing slightly different behaviours on two different machines. The common factor is that the problems only started happening after the most recent Windows update, which in my case happened today.

We are seeing quite a number of adverse behaviours, such as:

1. NVDA reads all the content of a multi-page PDF, but the first page is displayed the whole time, even when other pages are being read.

2. In NVDA, the browse mode cursor is displayed around the entire page all the time. It no longer highlights the content that is being read. The cursor displays as expected on web pages.

3. I have a single-page PDF that contains one link. I cannot give it focus by pressing the Tab key. Instead, I have to press Shift+Tab.

4. As in Laura's case, links cannot be operated by pressing the Enter key, but they can be operated by pressing Shift+Enter. However, unlike Laura, I cannot operate the links using Ctrl+Enter.

I am conducting the majority of these tests with PDFs that we remediated a few months ago and were thoroughly tested with both JAWS and NVDA on this machine at the time. I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA and Adobe Reader, but this made no difference at all.

One of my colleagues has a PC that has not yet had the recent update, and it is not exhibiting any of these behaviours with the same documents - everything works as expected.

So what on earth have Microsoft done to cause this? Why do we see different bugs on different machines? And how soon will they fix it? In the meantime, I'm going to restore an old disk image and try to prevent it from doing a Windows update.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk

Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2

From: Steve Green
Date: Sun, Oct 17 2021 6:31AM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks David, however the = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = email address does not work anymore. The person I spoke to on the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk was not even aware that they had ever had an email address.

Having spent 2 hours on the phone with them and having done many hours more testing, all the evidence shows that the problem is with Adobe Reader, not Windows. I suspect that we were misled by Adobe Reader silently updating at around the same time as the recent Windows update.

On the machines I have access to, the issues occur with the latest version of Adobe Reader (2021.007.20099) regardless of the Windows version.

The issues do not occur on a machine with Adobe Reader 2021.007.20091 and Adobe Acrobat 2021.007.20095 with the latest version of Windows (21H1 OS Build 19043. 1288) and an earlier build (21H1 OS Build 19043. 1201).

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any way to obtain recent versions of Adobe Reader. They do have an FTP site at ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/win/AcrobatDC/, but there are a couple of gotchas:

1. Chrome and Firefox no longer support FTP, so I had to use Internet Explorer! You might be able to use an FTP client, but WS_FTP 12 wouldn't connect because it insisted I enter a username and password, even though neither is required.

2. The most recent version of Adobe Reader I could find was dated 28 October 2020. I uninstalled the latest version and installed this one, and JAWS now works properly with PDFs again. It's not ideal to be using such an old version, but it's good enough to allow us to continue testing PDFs until Adobe release a fix.

If anyone knows how to obtain a more recent version of Adobe reader, please let me know.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of David Engebretson Jr.
Sent: 15 October 2021 20:24
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

You can send concerns to the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Or, if you are in an enterprise situation, the Enterprise Disability Desk can be summoned at:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Thanks!
David


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:39 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

Thanks for confirming that, Steve.
When combined with Adobe's PDF updates over the past couple of weeks, services to those with disabilities has now become nearly non-existent.

Does anyone here have direct access to Microsoft's interior development teams and can pass these bug descriptions up to the powers that be?

—Bevi Chagnon
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = — — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes — — — Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 1:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

We are now experiencing the same sort of problems that Laura reported with regard to screen reader behaviour with PDFs. However, we are seeing slightly different behaviours on two different machines. The common factor is that the problems only started happening after the most recent Windows update, which in my case happened today.

We are seeing quite a number of adverse behaviours, such as:

1. NVDA reads all the content of a multi-page PDF, but the first page is displayed the whole time, even when other pages are being read.

2. In NVDA, the browse mode cursor is displayed around the entire page all the time. It no longer highlights the content that is being read. The cursor displays as expected on web pages.

3. I have a single-page PDF that contains one link. I cannot give it focus by pressing the Tab key. Instead, I have to press Shift+Tab.

4. As in Laura's case, links cannot be operated by pressing the Enter key, but they can be operated by pressing Shift+Enter. However, unlike Laura, I cannot operate the links using Ctrl+Enter.

I am conducting the majority of these tests with PDFs that we remediated a few months ago and were thoroughly tested with both JAWS and NVDA on this machine at the time. I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA and Adobe Reader, but this made no difference at all.

One of my colleagues has a PC that has not yet had the recent update, and it is not exhibiting any of these behaviours with the same documents - everything works as expected.

So what on earth have Microsoft done to cause this? Why do we see different bugs on different machines? And how soon will they fix it? In the meantime, I'm going to restore an old disk image and try to prevent it from doing a Windows update.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk

Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2

From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Sun, Oct 17 2021 8:13PM
Subject: Re: Jaws not opening links
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks for all of that great information, Steve!

And, you are correct, there is no dad@ms email address. I must have dreamt it. *shrug*

I have since verified that calling, chat, and BeMyEyes are the 3 options for the non-enterprise folk to contact the Disability Answer Desk at Microsoft.

Here's a link to the page with all of the information you might need to report issues with Microsoft products related to accessibility: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/disability-answer-desk?activetab=contact-pivot%3aprimaryr9

Sorry about that Steve and others!
David


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 5:31 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

Thanks David, however the = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = email address does not work anymore. The person I spoke to on the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk was not even aware that they had ever had an email address.

Having spent 2 hours on the phone with them and having done many hours more testing, all the evidence shows that the problem is with Adobe Reader, not Windows. I suspect that we were misled by Adobe Reader silently updating at around the same time as the recent Windows update.

On the machines I have access to, the issues occur with the latest version of Adobe Reader (2021.007.20099) regardless of the Windows version.

The issues do not occur on a machine with Adobe Reader 2021.007.20091 and Adobe Acrobat 2021.007.20095 with the latest version of Windows (21H1 OS Build 19043. 1288) and an earlier build (21H1 OS Build 19043. 1201).

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any way to obtain recent versions of Adobe Reader. They do have an FTP site at ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/win/AcrobatDC/, but there are a couple of gotchas:

1. Chrome and Firefox no longer support FTP, so I had to use Internet Explorer! You might be able to use an FTP client, but WS_FTP 12 wouldn't connect because it insisted I enter a username and password, even though neither is required.

2. The most recent version of Adobe Reader I could find was dated 28 October 2020. I uninstalled the latest version and installed this one, and JAWS now works properly with PDFs again. It's not ideal to be using such an old version, but it's good enough to allow us to continue testing PDFs until Adobe release a fix.

If anyone knows how to obtain a more recent version of Adobe reader, please let me know.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of David Engebretson Jr.
Sent: 15 October 2021 20:24
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

You can send concerns to the Microsoft Disability Answer Desk:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Or, if you are in an enterprise situation, the Enterprise Disability Desk can be summoned at:
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Thanks!
David


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:39 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

Thanks for confirming that, Steve.
When combined with Adobe's PDF updates over the past couple of weeks, services to those with disabilities has now become nearly non-existent.

Does anyone here have direct access to Microsoft's interior development teams and can pass these bug descriptions up to the powers that be?

—Bevi Chagnon
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = — — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes — — — Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 1:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws not opening links

We are now experiencing the same sort of problems that Laura reported with regard to screen reader behaviour with PDFs. However, we are seeing slightly different behaviours on two different machines. The common factor is that the problems only started happening after the most recent Windows update, which in my case happened today.

We are seeing quite a number of adverse behaviours, such as:

1. NVDA reads all the content of a multi-page PDF, but the first page is displayed the whole time, even when other pages are being read.

2. In NVDA, the browse mode cursor is displayed around the entire page all the time. It no longer highlights the content that is being read. The cursor displays as expected on web pages.

3. I have a single-page PDF that contains one link. I cannot give it focus by pressing the Tab key. Instead, I have to press Shift+Tab.

4. As in Laura's case, links cannot be operated by pressing the Enter key, but they can be operated by pressing Shift+Enter. However, unlike Laura, I cannot operate the links using Ctrl+Enter.

I am conducting the majority of these tests with PDFs that we remediated a few months ago and were thoroughly tested with both JAWS and NVDA on this machine at the time. I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA and Adobe Reader, but this made no difference at all.

One of my colleagues has a PC that has not yet had the recent update, and it is not exhibiting any of these behaviours with the same documents - everything works as expected.

So what on earth have Microsoft done to cause this? Why do we see different bugs on different machines? And how soon will they fix it? In the meantime, I'm going to restore an old disk image and try to prevent it from doing a Windows update.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk

Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2