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Thread: Insertion Point while editing
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Sowmya D C
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 6:05AM
Subject: Insertion Point while editing
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Hello everyone,
First time post here.
Would it fail under WCAG or Section 508 if the insertion cursor point is
not announced by screen reader ( such as insertion point at start,
insertion point at end etc ) while on editing? If so, which is the suitable
guideline to fail it under? Additionally, are there some screen reader
features that helps screen reader users place cursor at different positions
other than charcter key method.
Any comments and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Sowmya.
From: Nathan Clark
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 6:28AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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Their is no such thing that I have ever heard of. Anyone here can
correct me if I am wrong.
On 12/1/22, Sowmya D C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> First time post here.
>
> Would it fail under WCAG or Section 508 if the insertion cursor point is
> not announced by screen reader ( such as insertion point at start,
> insertion point at end etc ) while on editing? If so, which is the suitable
> guideline to fail it under? Additionally, are there some screen reader
> features that helps screen reader users place cursor at different positions
> other than charcter key method.
>
> Any comments and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Sowmya.
> > > > >
--
Nathan Clark
QA Automation Analyst Tech team
Accessibility assistant
CPACC
cell: 410-446-7259
email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
101 Village Blvd
Princeton, NJ 08540
SMBE & Minority Owned Business
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 8:33AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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On 01/12/2022 13:05, Sowmya D C wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> First time post here.
>
> Would it fail under WCAG or Section 508 if the insertion cursor point is
> not announced by screen reader ( such as insertion point at start,
> insertion point at end etc ) while on editing? If so, which is the suitable
> guideline to fail it under? Additionally, are there some screen reader
> features that helps screen reader users place cursor at different positions
> other than charcter key method.
>
> Any comments and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
For web content, there's definitely nothing applicable (as how this sort
of thing is announced is dependent on the browser/OS/AT).
However, if this is about an actual piece of software, there's various
bits under Section 508 Chapter 5: Software (e.g. 502.3 Accessibility
Services) that I believe touch on this sort of thing (how things like
cursor/editing is conveyed)
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
From: Sowmya D C
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 10:34PM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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Yes Patrick,
This is infact a mobile bsoftware application. Are you saying that its not
a WCAG violation but would be a Section 508 violation? Also, I couldn't
find much on the Section 502.3 except for few lines over internet, do you
have a mirror link or something where I can read it in detail?
Thanks.
On Thursday, December 1, 2022, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> On 01/12/2022 13:05, Sowmya D C wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> First time post here.
>>
>> Would it fail under WCAG or Section 508 if the insertion cursor point is
>> not announced by screen reader ( such as insertion point at start,
>> insertion point at end etc ) while on editing? If so, which is the
>> suitable
>> guideline to fail it under? Additionally, are there some screen reader
>> features that helps screen reader users place cursor at different
>> positions
>> other than charcter key method.
>>
>> Any comments and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>
> For web content, there's definitely nothing applicable (as how this sort
> of thing is announced is dependent on the browser/OS/AT).
>
> However, if this is about an actual piece of software, there's various
> bits under Section 508 Chapter 5: Software (e.g. 502.3 Accessibility
> Services) that I believe touch on this sort of thing (how things like
> cursor/editing is conveyed)
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
> > > > >
From: Glen Walker
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 12:57AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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Perhaps start here, https://www.access-board.gov/ict/#502.3
>
> On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:34 PM, Sowmya D C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Yes Patrick,
>
> This is infact a mobile bsoftware application. Are you saying that its not
> a WCAG violation but would be a Section 508 violation? Also, I couldn't
> find much on the Section 502.3 except for few lines over internet, do you
> have a mirror link or something where I can read it in detail?
From: Sowmya D C
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 2:04AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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Thanks Glen,
I have found this by a search before, but the question I have is that I do
not see any additional information. Take 502.3.8 Text which I believe is
what I am trying to understand, here imthe information is so short. Are
there any additional information can I find somewhere? + Does this fail
WCAG? or it fails only Section 508?
Thanks.
On Friday, December 2, 2022, Glen Walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Perhaps start here, https://www.access-board.gov/ict/#502.3
>
> >
> > On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:34 PM, Sowmya D C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > Yes Patrick,
> >
> > This is infact a mobile bsoftware application. Are you saying that its
> not
> > a WCAG violation but would be a Section 508 violation? Also, I couldn't
> > find much on the Section 502.3 except for few lines over internet, do you
> > have a mirror link or something where I can read it in detail?
> > > > >
From: allyssa jessicon
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 3:31AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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This is not a WCAG violation.
Patrick, are you trying to say the insertion point in a webpage is
controlled by OS/AT/Browser and when it comes to the mobile platform
iOS/Android, its not controllable by application dev and so is a
Section 508 failure?
On 12/2/22, Sowmya D C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thanks Glen,
>
> I have found this by a search before, but the question I have is that I do
> not see any additional information. Take 502.3.8 Text which I believe is
> what I am trying to understand, here imthe information is so short. Are
> there any additional information can I find somewhere? + Does this fail
> WCAG? or it fails only Section 508?
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Friday, December 2, 2022, Glen Walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Perhaps start here, https://www.access-board.gov/ict/#502.3
>>
>> >
>> > On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:34 PM, Sowmya D C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes Patrick,
>> >
>> > This is infact a mobile bsoftware application. Are you saying that its
>> not
>> > a WCAG violation but would be a Section 508 violation? Also, I couldn't
>> > find much on the Section 502.3 except for few lines over internet, do
>> > you
>> > have a mirror link or something where I can read it in detail?
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 3:39AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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On 02/12/2022 10:31, allyssa jessicon wrote:
> This is not a WCAG violation.
>
> Patrick, are you trying to say the insertion point in a webpage is
> controlled by OS/AT/Browser and when it comes to the mobile platform
> iOS/Android, its not controllable by application dev and so is a
> Section 508 failure?
Not just mobile platform, but relates to actual software products in
general (which may be implementing their own input handling etc from
basic principles, so need to make sure they communicate information
correctly to assistive technologies...something that, for web content,
is handled already by the browser/OS)
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
From: allyssa jessicon
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 4:02AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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I could see a lot of guidelines under Section 502.3. Do you mean all
of this guideline may fail if not met? That should be a lot of work to
be done.
On 12/2/22, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On 02/12/2022 10:31, allyssa jessicon wrote:
>> This is not a WCAG violation.
>>
>> Patrick, are you trying to say the insertion point in a webpage is
>> controlled by OS/AT/Browser and when it comes to the mobile platform
>> iOS/Android, its not controllable by application dev and so is a
>> Section 508 failure?
>
> Not just mobile platform, but relates to actual software products in
> general (which may be implementing their own input handling etc from
> basic principles, so need to make sure they communicate information
> correctly to assistive technologies...something that, for web content,
> is handled already by the browser/OS)
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
> > > > >
From: tim.harshbarger@deque.com
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2022 10:30AM
Subject: Re: Insertion Point while editing
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One thing to keep in mind with screen readers is that they don't always just announce information in text. There are many screen readers that will announce to the user when they reach the start or end of the field by playing a sound. Also, they may announce where they are inside a text field by announcing the current character where the insertion point is at.
On a mobile device, the way someone would move through a text field with a screen reader would likely involve changing the unit of movement between settings like character, word, line, etc and then using gestures to move through the text field.
Also, if you are testing both on Android and iOS, don't expect the screen readers to say the same things. While they communicate similar types of information, each screen reader tends to communicate that information they feel is most useful to their users.
Thanks,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 4:40 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Insertion Point while editing
On 02/12/2022 10:31, allyssa jessicon wrote:
> This is not a WCAG violation.
>
> Patrick, are you trying to say the insertion point in a webpage is
> controlled by OS/AT/Browser and when it comes to the mobile platform
> iOS/Android, its not controllable by application dev and so is a
> Section 508 failure?
Not just mobile platform, but relates to actual software products in general (which may be implementing their own input handling etc from basic principles, so need to make sure they communicate information correctly to assistive technologies...something that, for web content, is handled already by the browser/OS)
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke