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Thread: Non-textual content: tables?
Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)
From: Pospelova Vera
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 6:04AM
Subject: Non-textual content: tables?
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Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 6:36AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Vera
A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Pospelova Vera
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 6:49AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi,
Thank you so much for clarifying. Reading the criteria 1.3.1: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. My question now is that if the table is correctly structured and is regular (no merge cells, etc), and the information regarding this table or a summary of the most important values contained is provided in the text, must the table have also an alternative text according to these criteria (1.1.1 and 1.3.1)?
The problem is that some of the people are complaining about this, as in the Word file you can add alternative text for a table, but when exporting to PDF, you have to manually add table summary, because although the text is exported in the table tag, only is read by screen readers if you add a table summary, which implies a doble work for the people.
Thank you.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Lars Ballieu Christensen
Enviado el: miércoles, 7 de diciembre de 2022 14:36
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
Hi Vera
A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7C4dd59217ed5a4fbf70bd08dad8580a8a%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638060169899915573%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata:LcJ8XPwzrSiDJMtD0xetxy%2FUIfu6WrqQdTqWl2EdU%3D&reserved=0
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 7:01AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Vera
No, a table should not have an alt text.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.49, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hi,
Thank you so much for clarifying. Reading the criteria 1.3.1: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. My question now is that if the table is correctly structured and is regular (no merge cells, etc), and the information regarding this table or a summary of the most important values contained is provided in the text, must the table have also an alternative text according to these criteria (1.1.1 and 1.3.1)?
The problem is that some of the people are complaining about this, as in the Word file you can add alternative text for a table, but when exporting to PDF, you have to manually add table summary, because although the text is exported in the table tag, only is read by screen readers if you add a table summary, which implies a doble work for the people.
Thank you.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Lars Ballieu Christensen
Enviado el: miércoles, 7 de diciembre de 2022 14:36
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
Hi Vera
A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook..com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7C4dd59217ed5a4fbf70bd08dad8580a8a%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638060169899915573%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata:LcJ8XPwzrSiDJMtD0xetxy%2FUIfu6WrqQdTqWl2EdU%3D&reserved=0
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Pospelova Vera
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 9:19AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Thank you so much for your help.
Regards,
Vera Pospelova
Ãrea Investigación en Ciencias de la Computación
Universidad de Alcalá
Edificio Politécnico, Dpto Ciencias de la Computación â N22
Campus Universitario - Ctra. Barcelona Km 33.6
28871Â ALCALÃ DE HENARES (Madrid)
â: 91 885 6972Â Â Ext. 6972
ï Please consider the environment before printing this email
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Lars Ballieu Christensen
Enviado el: miércoles, 7 de diciembre de 2022 15:02
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
Hi Vera
No, a table should not have an alt text.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Ccdbeb3a8ae734fce85ba08dad85ba12a%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638060185308019916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3pCc5%2Ba94nj%2FSIpbzVdo0J4vIMGtPd5zu9c%2FQIedg1g%3D&reserved=0
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.49, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hi,
Thank you so much for clarifying. Reading the criteria 1.3.1: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. My question now is that if the table is correctly structured and is regular (no merge cells, etc), and the information regarding this table or a summary of the most important values contained is provided in the text, must the table have also an alternative text according to these criteria (1.1.1 and 1.3.1)?
The problem is that some of the people are complaining about this, as in the Word file you can add alternative text for a table, but when exporting to PDF, you have to manually add table summary, because although the text is exported in the table tag, only is read by screen readers if you add a table summary, which implies a doble work for the people.
Thank you.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Lars Ballieu Christensen
Enviado el: miércoles, 7 de diciembre de 2022 14:36
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
Hi Vera
A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook..com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7C4dd59217ed5a4fbf70bd08dad8580a8a%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638060169899915573%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata:LcJ8XPwzrSiDJMtD0xetxy%2FUIfu6WrqQdTqWl2EdU%3D&reserved=0
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Murphy, Sean
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 11:12PM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
HI,
The simple answer is no. If the table is correctly marked up using HTML table tags. Then you will pass the 1.3.1 requirement. 1.1.1 focuses upon images, not how a page is structured.
1.1.1 is leveraged when you have a image showing something. Such as a graph, logo, picture, etc. Then you can apply alt text or other techniques to the image. So screen reader users can understand the image. In the case of an graph (chart) I would recommend there is an HTML table on the page showing the same information or summary. The screen reader user or other users who cannot understand graphs have the ability of seeing the raw data or a summary of the key points from the graph. The table you do not apply any alt text concepts to it. You can apply a summary or caption to the table if you like.
Regards
Sean Murphy
Sean Murphy | Senior Digital System specialist (Accessibility)
Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
Diversity is having a seat at the table, inclusion is having a voice, and belonging is having that voice be heard
Submit an Engagement Accessibility form
Accessibility Single Source of Truth
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Pospelova Vera
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2022 12:50 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
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Hi,
Thank you so much for clarifying. Reading the criteria 1.3.1: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. My question now is that if the table is correctly structured and is regular (no merge cells, etc), and the information regarding this table or a summary of the most important values contained is provided in the text, must the table have also an alternative text according to these criteria (1.1.1 and 1.3.1)?
The problem is that some of the people are complaining about this, as in the Word file you can add alternative text for a table, but when exporting to PDF, you have to manually add table summary, because although the text is exported in the table tag, only is read by screen readers if you add a table summary, which implies a doble work for the people.
Thank you.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Lars Ballieu Christensen Enviado el: miércoles, 7 de diciembre de 2022 14:36
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
Hi Vera
A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cd944315%40teamtelstra.mail.onmicrosoft.com%7C53dbe74291bf46010d6908dad859f258%7C49dfc6a35fb749f4adeac54e725bb854%7C0%7C0%7C638060178081057270%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qWdhVX0HSpH4IpOwU9ZL1GCp3Au6vIx5AnKyktQlaX8%3D&reserved=0
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hello,
Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
Please can you help us?
Thank you,
Regards,
Vera.
From: Josua Muheim
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2022 11:31PM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
With âHeadingsâ, Lars probably means â<th>â elements (not to confuse with i.e. <h1>).
> On 7 Dec 2022, at 19:06, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Vera
>
> A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
>
> Please can you help us?
>
> Thank you,
> Regards,
> Vera.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > >
From: Pospelova Vera
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2022 1:56AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi,
Thank you again.
I was referring specifically to documents in the website, which must be also accessible. Specifically with Word files and PDF files, as the both softwares have options to add alternative text. My doubt was concrete in this case, if the table is well structured, having a heading, and the context describes the most important values contained in the table if the alternative text is mandatory or not. In case of PDF, if I run the accessibility checker I have an error in every table because it does not contain table summary, but I really was in doubt if this is something mandatory or not although the tool mark it as error.
Thanks.
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > en nombre de Josua Muheim < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Enviado: jueves, 8 de diciembre de 2022 07:31
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
With âHeadingsâ, Lars probably means â<th>â elements (not to confuse with i.e. <h1>).
> On 7 Dec 2022, at 19:06, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Vera
>
> A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Cf97764faca224edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638060778975066093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uPKh0gSCmncYsZhf2Uq5NxNqHBYee3aLrBAi0ZWcno0%3D&reserved=0
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
>
> Please can you help us?
>
> Thank you,
> Regards,
> Vera.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > >
From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2022 1:57AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
Exactly __
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 08/12/2022, 07.31, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Josua Muheim" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
With âHeadingsâ, Lars probably means â<th>â elements (not to confuse with i.e. <h1>).
> On 7 Dec 2022, at 19:06, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Vera
>
> A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
>
> Please can you help us?
>
> Thank you,
> Regards,
> Vera.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > >
From: Steve Green
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2022 3:47AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | Next message →
I don't know why Word provides the ability to add alternate text to a table. The question has arisen many times and no one has ever had an answer. It doesn't appear to be used for anything, so I suggest you leave it blank.
If the surrounding content provides sufficient context, there is no need to provide a table summary. If testing tools report an error, we regard it as a false positive.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Pospelova Vera
Sent: 08 December 2022 08:57
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
Hi,
Thank you again.
I was referring specifically to documents in the website, which must be also accessible. Specifically with Word files and PDF files, as the both softwares have options to add alternative text. My doubt was concrete in this case, if the table is well structured, having a heading, and the context describes the most important values contained in the table if the alternative text is mandatory or not. In case of PDF, if I run the accessibility checker I have an error in every table because it does not contain table summary, but I really was in doubt if this is something mandatory or not although the tool mark it as error.
Thanks.
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > en nombre de Josua Muheim < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Enviado: jueves, 8 de diciembre de 2022 07:31
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
With âHeadingsâ, Lars probably means â<th>â elements (not to confuse with i.e. <h1>).
> On 7 Dec 2022, at 19:06, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Vera
>
> A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i
> tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Cf97764faca22
> 4edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C6380
> 60778975066093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uPKh0gSC
> mncYsZhf2Uq5NxNqHBYee3aLrBAi0ZWcno0%3D&reserved=0
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
>
> Please can you help us?
>
> Thank you,
> Regards,
> Vera.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Cf97764faca2
> 24edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638
> 060778975222340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gvsjv5x
> EzZjQ5c7yp%2Bw68VxGy0TfAUOCqUgEv3k7IXc%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.
> es%7Cf97764faca224edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e
> 26%7C1%7C0%7C638060778975222340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&a
> mp;sdata=PGH6PqYDYOEgonZLTjbLZnKGp%2BzAvgvgXYeS15uhwho%3D&reserved
> =0
From: Pospelova Vera
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2022 3:49AM
Subject: Re: Non-textual content: tables?
← Previous message | No next message
Understood, thank you all for your help.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > En nombre de Steve Green
Enviado el: jueves, 8 de diciembre de 2022 11:47
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
I don't know why Word provides the ability to add alternate text to a table. The question has arisen many times and no one has ever had an answer. It doesn't appear to be used for anything, so I suggest you leave it blank.
If the surrounding content provides sufficient context, there is no need to provide a table summary. If testing tools report an error, we regard it as a false positive.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Pospelova Vera
Sent: 08 December 2022 08:57
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
Hi,
Thank you again.
I was referring specifically to documents in the website, which must be also accessible. Specifically with Word files and PDF files, as the both softwares have options to add alternative text. My doubt was concrete in this case, if the table is well structured, having a heading, and the context describes the most important values contained in the table if the alternative text is mandatory or not. In case of PDF, if I run the accessibility checker I have an error in every table because it does not contain table summary, but I really was in doubt if this is something mandatory or not although the tool mark it as error.
Thanks.
De: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > en nombre de Josua Muheim < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Enviado: jueves, 8 de diciembre de 2022 07:31
Para: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Asunto: Re: [WebAIM] Non-textual content: tables?
ATENCIÃN: Este correo electrónico se envió desde fuera de la UAH. No haga clic en enlaces ni abra archivos adjuntos a menos que reconozca al remitente y sepa que el contenido es seguro.
With âHeadingsâ, Lars probably means â<th>â elements (not to confuse with i.e. <h1>).
> On 7 Dec 2022, at 19:06, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Vera
>
> A table is not non-textual content; a table is a structure that should be marked up as such with prober headings, a caption and a summary. Rather than SC 1.1.1., you probably want to have a look at SC 1.3.1.
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i
> tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> sensus.dk%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Cf97764faca22
> 4edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C6380
> 60778975066093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uPKh0gSC
> mncYsZhf2Uq5NxNqHBYee3aLrBAi0ZWcno0%3D&reserved=0
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2022, 14.04, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Pospelova Vera" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Our country adopted the EN 301 549:2019 norm/standard, which is based on WCAG 2.1 guidelines. I have a question regarding the 1.1.1 success criteria, which is non-textual content. In concrete, I cannot find anywhere how the tables should be considered. We are sure that figures must have an alternative text as they are non-textual content, but our doubt is with the tables, we do not know how they should be considered, and we couldn't find any solid clarification in the norm/standard.
>
> Please can you help us?
>
> Thank you,
> Regards,
> Vera.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.es%7Cf97764faca2
> 24edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e26%7C1%7C0%7C638
> 060778975222340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gvsjv5x
> EzZjQ5c7yp%2Bw68VxGy0TfAUOCqUgEv3k7IXc%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cvera.pospelova%40uah.
> es%7Cf97764faca224edca64e08dad8e5daf1%7Cced2c5527d1f4731aa3a2f0ec9629e
> 26%7C1%7C0%7C638060778975222340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&a
> mp;sdata=PGH6PqYDYOEgonZLTjbLZnKGp%2BzAvgvgXYeS15uhwho%3D&reserved
> =0