E-mail List Archives
Thread: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:18PM
Subject: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
No previous message | Next message →
I just came upon the instruction below and wondering if part of it is true:
The instructions:
HTML Form Inputs Using the Title Attribute
In some cases, it is visually impractical to use a form label. When fields have no visual labels the title attribute provides information about the fields. Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute.
<input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" />
<input type="text" name="num3" title="Enter the last 4 digits of your phone number" />
Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute."
I had never heard/read this before.
Angela French
Internet Specialist
State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.checkoutacollege.com<;http://www.checkoutacollege.com/>;
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:27PM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
That's true; use the label tag if on screen text is good; if not use the
title attribute on the input element! Screen Readers will read that title
attribute.
Jim
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:33PM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Angela,
browsers map title attribute content to the accessible name property
in Accessibility APIs if a label element is not associated with a
control. If the label element is associated and the title element is
present on the control, generally the title is then mapped to the
accessible description property in accessibility APIs, so AT will
generally read the accessible name value provided by browsers
regardless of the source of its content.
so
example 1
<input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" />
the accessible name for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone
exchange" from the title
example 2
<label for="num2">phone number</label> <input type="text" name="num2"
title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" id="num2" />
the accessible name for the control is "phone number" from the label
the accessible description for the control is "Enter your 3 digit
phone exchange" from the title.
Note: the accessible description is not well supported in older AT
On 19 April 2011 22:15, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I just came upon the instruction below and wondering if part of it is true:
>
>
> The instructions:
>
> HTML Form Inputs Using the Title Attribute
> In some cases, it is visually impractical to use a form label. When fields have no visual labels the title attribute provides information about the fields. Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute.
> <input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" />
> <input type="text" name="num3" title="Enter the last 4 digits of your phone number" />
>
>
> Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute."
>
>
> I had never heard/read this before.
>
>
> Angela French
> Internet Specialist
> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
> 360-704-4316
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.checkoutacollege.com<;http://www.checkoutacollege.com/>;
>
>
From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:39PM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Thank you. I thought the reading for the title attribute was configurable (or not supported) by some screen readers, thus a <label> tag would provide more assurance of accessibility.
Hi Angela,
browsers map title attribute content to the accessible name property in Accessibility APIs if a label element is not associated with a control. If the label element is associated and the title element is present on the control, generally the title is then mapped to the accessible description property in accessibility APIs, so AT will generally read the accessible name value provided by browsers regardless of the source of its content.
so
example 1
<input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" />
the accessible name for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" from the title
example 2
<label for="num2">phone number</label> <input type="text" name="num2"
title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" id="num2" />
the accessible name for the control is "phone number" from the label the accessible description for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" from the title.
Note: the accessible description is not well supported in older AT
>
>
> Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute."
>
>
> I had never heard/read this before.
>
>
> Angela French
> Internet Specialist
> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
> 360-704-4316
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.checkoutacollege.com<;http://www.checkoutacollege.com/>;
>
>
From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:45PM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Awesome. Thank you Steve.
Angela French
Hi angela.
this article may be useful for understanding when it is OK to use a title attribute;
Using the HTML title attribute
http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/11/using-the-html-title-attribute/
regards
stevef
On 19 April 2011 22:34, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thank you. I thought the reading for the title attribute was configurable (or not supported) by some screen readers, thus a <label> tag would provide more assurance of accessibility.
>
>
>
> Hi Angela,
> browsers map title attribute content to the accessible name property in Accessibility APIs if a label element is not associated with a control. If the label element is associated and the title element is present on the control, generally the title is then mapped to the accessible description property in accessibility APIs, so AT will generally read the accessible name value provided by browsers regardless of the source of its content.
>
> so
>
> example 1
>
> <input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone
> exchange" />
>
> the accessible name for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone
> exchange" from the title
>
> example 2
>
> <label for="num2">phone number</label> <input type="text" name="num2"
> title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" id="num2" />
>
> the accessible name for the control is "phone number" from the label the accessible description for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" from the title.
>
> Note: the accessible description is not well supported in older AT
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute."
>>
>>
>> I had never heard/read this before.
>>
>>
>> Angela French
>> Internet Specialist
>> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
>> 360-704-4316
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> http://www.checkoutacollege.com<;http://www.checkoutacollege.com/>;
>>
>>
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:51PM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi angela.
this article may be useful for understanding when it is OK to use a
title attribute;
Using the HTML title attribute
http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/11/using-the-html-title-attribute/
regards
stevef
On 19 April 2011 22:34, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thank you. I thought the reading for the title attribute was configurable (or not supported) by some screen readers, thus a <label> tag would provide more assurance of accessibility.
>
>
>
> Hi Angela,
> browsers map title attribute content to the accessible name property in Accessibility APIs if a label element is not associated with a control. If the label element is associated and the title element is present on the control, generally the title is then mapped to the accessible description property in accessibility APIs, so AT will generally read the accessible name value provided by browsers regardless of the source of its content.
>
> so
>
> example 1
>
> <input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" />
>
> the accessible name for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" from the title
>
> example 2
>
> <label for="num2">phone number</label> <input type="text" name="num2"
> title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" id="num2" />
>
> the accessible name for the control is "phone number" from the label the accessible description for the control is "Enter your 3 digit phone exchange" from the title.
>
> Note: the accessible description is not well supported in older AT
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute."
>>
>>
>> I had never heard/read this before.
>>
>>
>> Angela French
>> Internet Specialist
>> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
>> 360-704-4316
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> http://www.checkoutacollege.com<;http://www.checkoutacollege.com/>;
>>
>>
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2011 3:54AM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attirbute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Angela French wrote:
> I just came upon the instruction below and wondering if part of it is
> true:
It is partly true, but I think the most essential question here is one that
hasn't been asked yet.
> The instructions:
>
> HTML Form Inputs Using the Title Attribute
> In some cases, it is visually impractical to use a form label. When
> fields have no visual labels the title attribute provides information
> about the fields. Assistive technology looks for the <label> element,
> but if it isn't provided, they will read the title attribute.
> <input type="text" name="num2" title="Enter your 3 digit phone exchange"
> />
> <input type="text" name="num3" title="Enter the last 4 digits of your
> phone number" />
The example suggests is about a phone number divided into two fields.
Typically, cases where "it is visually impractical to use a form label" are
of this type. So, assuming that you are in control of the markup and the
processing of form data, wouldn't it be better to use a single field? The
problem would vanish in a puff of logic, and you could write:
<label for="phone">Your phone number:</label>
<input type="tel" id="phone" name="phone">
This makes typing the number easier and more natural, and it lets the user
copy and paste the number, or maybe accept a value previously entered in a
field with the same name. Moreover, you can use type="tel" (as per HTML5
drafts), thereby letting browsers implement the field in an intelligent way,
designed for phone number input - support to this is limited but increasing,
and it may include specific input methods (e.g., a virtual keyboard suitable
for phone number input) as well as checking the format of the input. And on
non-supporting browsers, the input element degrades gracefully to an
old-fashioned text input box.
For other types of data, the situation might not be equally clearcut, but in
general, data items such as phone numbers or dates should not be split to
separate fields corresponding to their components. One reason to this is
that you can normally write a natural label for the item, but labelling the
components separately would get awkward.
> Is the following true? " Assistive technology looks for the <label>
> element, but if it isn't provided, they will read the title
> attribute."
That applies to some assistive technologies, at least in some situations. I
wouldn't bet on the universality of such behavior.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
From: Michael.Moore
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2011 6:54AM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attribute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
One added piece of bit of information regarding the use of the title attribute. The ZoomText screen reader does not support the label tag with its speech output but it does read the title attribute.
Since we have a large number of ZoomText users among our staff we have used both the title attribute and the label element when coding our internal applications. The only risk of this approach is that some screen readers can be configured by the user to read both the label and the title and redundant information will be heard.
Mike Moore
From: Jason Megginson
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2011 11:33AM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attribute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Mike,
I disagree with this claim. ZoomText 9.18 (with speech) does in fact read
form labels structured with label tags. I cannot comment about past
versions (or versions used in your organization) but this version I'm
using works well without title attributes.
Jason Megginson
SSB BART Group
(O):703-637-8964
(C):703-244-7755
From: Michael.Moore
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2011 11:42AM
Subject: Re: Do screen readers read title attribute if there is no label tag on form elements?
← Previous message | No next message
Thanks Jason, that is good news. Now we just have to figure out why ZT is still not reading labels in our environment. Would you mind telling me what OS and browser you are using? Also, on a related note the last ZT update broke from field tracking on PDF forms using reader 9 we have a ticket into AI Squared but no resolution yet. Have you experienced the problem? If you don't mind I could send you a form off line.
Michael Moore
(512) 424-4159