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Thread: Google Forms: Label issues
Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)
From: Karla Kmetz
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 11:26AM
Subject: Google Forms: Label issues
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Hi All,
I created a form using Google Docs, and when I used the WAVE toolbar I had
several accessibility errors related to form labels. I am listing the
errors I get below, and the reasons I think they are happening. But I
cannot figure out how to get into the code view so that I can fix them. I
have also been searching online, but not finding much information about how
to fix this.
If you haven't used Google Forms, it prompts you for the Question, Help
Text, and Answer Type. Here are the errors I get:
Multiple form labels associated with one field: I believe it is
associateing the Question and the Help Text with the fillable text answer
field.
Orphaned form label: This happens when a Question has checkboxes for an
answer, because those checkboxes then receive their own label.
Missing form label: This happens when I do not include Help Text with the
question.
Does anyone have any ideas, resources or fixes? Or are Google forms just
not accessible? I'd appreciate any input. Our institution uses Google Forms
a lot.
Thanks,
Karla
--
*Karla Kmetz, M.Ed.*
Instructional Designer
Distance Learning and Instructional Media Services
University of South Florida St. Petersburg, POY 239
Phone: 727-873-4474
From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 11:39AM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karla Kmetz wrote:
> But I cannot figure out how to get into the code view so that I can fix them.
You can't edit the underlying code in Google Docs or Forms. It would
be up to Google to fix these issues.
> Multiple form labels associated with one field:
This is a potential issue because screen reader generally only read
the first label that is encountered. If the first label is the
question text, it may not actually be an issue.
> Orphaned form label
This isn't really an issue. This check has been removed from WAVE5.
While having a label that is not associated to a control may indicate
that a form control *might* be mislabelled or unlabelled, the orphaned
label itself doesn't cause any issues. WAVE would, of course,
separately flag any form controls that are missing labels. This error
can probably be ignored.
> Missing form label: This happens when I do not include Help Text with the
> question.
This seems very odd. I would think the question should be the label
and that lack of help text shouldn't cause any issues.
> Or are Google forms just not accessible?
From what you describe, I'd say there seems to be issues with Google
forms. If you have an example form we could look at, I'm sure we could
provide a more definitive answer.
Jared
From: Karla Kmetz
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 11:53AM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Jared,
Thank you for your quick response. It sounds like these issues may not
actually be a problem. The first label is the question text and the help
text is usually for formatting. For example:
Question: What date did you take this course?
Help Text: mm/dd/yy
I could just include that Help Text in parenthesis next to the question
text.
Do screen readers skip over empty form labels? If so, then the having the
Question text associated with the answer field should be ok.
Here is the link to a sample
form<https://docs.google.com/a/mail.usf.edu/spreadsheet/viewform?formkeyÞE0Q2hXN1B3NWtzeTh5MFhRTWlrM1E6MQ#gid=0>,
so you could get a better idea of what I am describing.
Thanks,
Karla
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karla Kmetz wrote:
> > But I cannot figure out how to get into the code view so that I can fix
> them.
>
> You can't edit the underlying code in Google Docs or Forms. It would
> be up to Google to fix these issues.
>
> > Multiple form labels associated with one field:
>
> This is a potential issue because screen reader generally only read
> the first label that is encountered. If the first label is the
> question text, it may not actually be an issue.
>
> > Orphaned form label
>
> This isn't really an issue. This check has been removed from WAVE5.
> While having a label that is not associated to a control may indicate
> that a form control *might* be mislabelled or unlabelled, the orphaned
> label itself doesn't cause any issues. WAVE would, of course,
> separately flag any form controls that are missing labels. This error
> can probably be ignored.
>
> > Missing form label: This happens when I do not include Help Text with the
> > question.
>
> This seems very odd. I would think the question should be the label
> and that lack of help text shouldn't cause any issues.
>
> > Or are Google forms just not accessible?
>
> From what you describe, I'd say there seems to be issues with Google
> forms. If you have an example form we could look at, I'm sure we could
> provide a more definitive answer.
>
> Jared
> > > >
--
*Karla Kmetz, M.Ed.*
Instructional Designer
Distance Learning and Instructional Media Services
University of South Florida St. Petersburg, POY 239
Phone: 727-873-4474
From: Greg Kraus
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 11:58AM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Karla,
Google Forms have some basic accessibility problems. As Jared points
out, you cannot edit the code, so there isn't much you can do. The
main accessibility problems I have noticed so far are:
1. You are correct, the question and the help text are both being
associated as labels for a single input element. This is technically
incorrect, but some screen readers seem to handle this OK, but there
is no guarantee that all screen readers will.
2. All of the questions are coded as labels, but sometimes those
labels aren't explicitly tied to the following choices, such as
multiple choice questions made with check boxes or radio buttons. What
is really needed is a different model of presenting the questions and
choices. Some question types, like multiple choice, in most cases
should probably be implemented with a legend for the fieldset. This
raises the problem then of some questions being coded as labels and
some as fieldsets. There are other solutions to this problem, such as
using headings to denote each question, or else using aria-label or
aria-labelledby attributes.
3. Required fields are not announced by screen readers as being required.
4. Inputs for the grid question types are not labelled correctly
5. Inputs for the scale question type could be more usable if the
screen reader user is given some explanatory text ahead of time about
how it's laid out.
There are some steps you could take to make Forms more accessible, like
1. putting 1 question per page
2. if a question is required, make "required" part of the question text
3. limit yourself to the more accessible types of questions
This still won't make it totally accessible, but it would make it more usable.
I hope this helps.
Greg
--
Greg Kraus
University IT Accessibility Coordinator
NC State University
919.513.4087
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karla Kmetz wrote:
>> But I cannot figure out how to get into the code view so that I can fix them.
>
> You can't edit the underlying code in Google Docs or Forms. It would
> be up to Google to fix these issues.
>
>> Multiple form labels associated with one field:
>
> This is a potential issue because screen reader generally only read
> the first label that is encountered. If the first label is the
> question text, it may not actually be an issue.
>
>> Orphaned form label
>
> This isn't really an issue. This check has been removed from WAVE5.
> While having a label that is not associated to a control may indicate
> that a form control *might* be mislabelled or unlabelled, the orphaned
> label itself doesn't cause any issues. WAVE would, of course,
> separately flag any form controls that are missing labels. This error
> can probably be ignored.
>
>> Missing form label: This happens when I do not include Help Text with the
>> question.
>
> This seems very odd. I would think the question should be the label
> and that lack of help text shouldn't cause any issues.
>
>> Or are Google forms just not accessible?
>
> From what you describe, I'd say there seems to be issues with Google
> forms. If you have an example form we could look at, I'm sure we could
> provide a more definitive answer.
>
> Jared
> > >
From: Karla Kmetz
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 12:28PM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Greg,
That really does help! Thank you Greg! Of course, I wonder if we should
really evaluate whether we should continue to use these forms if they are
not accessible. It seems that Survey Monkey is pretty accessible and that
might be a good option, I just know this is the preferred program for our
campus since Google is so integrated into our system so that is why I am
trying hard to see if there is a way to make it accessible.
Karla
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Greg Kraus < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Karla,
>
> Google Forms have some basic accessibility problems. As Jared points
> out, you cannot edit the code, so there isn't much you can do. The
> main accessibility problems I have noticed so far are:
>
> 1. You are correct, the question and the help text are both being
> associated as labels for a single input element. This is technically
> incorrect, but some screen readers seem to handle this OK, but there
> is no guarantee that all screen readers will.
>
> 2. All of the questions are coded as labels, but sometimes those
> labels aren't explicitly tied to the following choices, such as
> multiple choice questions made with check boxes or radio buttons. What
> is really needed is a different model of presenting the questions and
> choices. Some question types, like multiple choice, in most cases
> should probably be implemented with a legend for the fieldset. This
> raises the problem then of some questions being coded as labels and
> some as fieldsets. There are other solutions to this problem, such as
> using headings to denote each question, or else using aria-label or
> aria-labelledby attributes.
>
> 3. Required fields are not announced by screen readers as being required.
>
> 4. Inputs for the grid question types are not labelled correctly
>
> 5. Inputs for the scale question type could be more usable if the
> screen reader user is given some explanatory text ahead of time about
> how it's laid out.
>
> There are some steps you could take to make Forms more accessible, like
>
> 1. putting 1 question per page
> 2. if a question is required, make "required" part of the question text
> 3. limit yourself to the more accessible types of questions
>
> This still won't make it totally accessible, but it would make it more
> usable.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Kraus
> University IT Accessibility Coordinator
> NC State University
> 919.513.4087
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karla Kmetz wrote:
> >> But I cannot figure out how to get into the code view so that I can
> fix them.
> >
> > You can't edit the underlying code in Google Docs or Forms. It would
> > be up to Google to fix these issues.
> >
> >> Multiple form labels associated with one field:
> >
> > This is a potential issue because screen reader generally only read
> > the first label that is encountered. If the first label is the
> > question text, it may not actually be an issue.
> >
> >> Orphaned form label
> >
> > This isn't really an issue. This check has been removed from WAVE5.
> > While having a label that is not associated to a control may indicate
> > that a form control *might* be mislabelled or unlabelled, the orphaned
> > label itself doesn't cause any issues. WAVE would, of course,
> > separately flag any form controls that are missing labels. This error
> > can probably be ignored.
> >
> >> Missing form label: This happens when I do not include Help Text with
> the
> >> question.
> >
> > This seems very odd. I would think the question should be the label
> > and that lack of help text shouldn't cause any issues.
> >
> >> Or are Google forms just not accessible?
> >
> > From what you describe, I'd say there seems to be issues with Google
> > forms. If you have an example form we could look at, I'm sure we could
> > provide a more definitive answer.
> >
> > Jared
> > > > > > > > > >
--
*Karla Kmetz, M.Ed.*
Instructional Designer
Distance Learning and Instructional Media Services
University of South Florida St. Petersburg, POY 239
Phone: 727-873-4474
From: John E Brandt
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 12:46PM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
I would not be surprised to hear that Google Forms had some accessibility
issues. Most of the Google Apps have accessibility issues and should
probably be avoided.
See references here:
http://jebswebs.net/blog/2012/04/research-review-google-apps-for-education-a
nd-accessibility/
Short URL: http://tinyurl.com/brmr4bk
~j
PS: Didn't we just have a discussion about SurveyMonkey and SurveyGizmo and
accessibility in this list?
John E. Brandt
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
Augusta, Maine, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karla Kmetz
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:27 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Google Forms: Label issues
Hi All,
I created a form using Google Docs, and when I used the WAVE toolbar I had
several accessibility errors related to form labels. I am listing the errors
I get below, and the reasons I think they are happening. But I cannot figure
out how to get into the code view so that I can fix them. I have also been
searching online, but not finding much information about how to fix this.
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 2:18PM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
> 1. You are correct, the question and the help text are both being
> associated as labels for a single input element. This is technically
> incorrect, but some screen readers seem to handle this OK, but there
> is no guarantee that all screen readers will.
>
Sailesh: As a matter of fact it is technically correct to associate 2
labels with one input control. Both 'for' values should have to match
the 'id'value. It is right to say that some AT handle it right ... it
is user agent dependent.
I'd perhaps use one label to include the help text if it is adjacent
to question text. Else aria-describedby may have wider user agent
support than 2 labels.
> 2. All of the questions are coded as labels, but sometimes those
> labels aren't explicitly tied to the following choices, such as
> multiple choice questions made with check boxes or radio buttons. What
> is really needed is a different model of presenting the questions and
> choices. Some question types, like multiple choice, in most cases
> should probably be implemented with a legend for the fieldset. This
> raises the problem then of some questions being coded as labels and
> some as fieldsets. There are other solutions to this problem, such as
> using headings to denote each question, or else using aria-label or
> aria-labelledby attributes.
Sailesh: Fieldset/legend is the appropriate solution. Well if the
structure of the question and answer choices are different, they
justify different markup. It does not have to be the same as for
question text with input type=text.
Unless custom controls that do not support HTML labelling methods are
used, there's no need for aria-label or labelledby. Use of heading too
is not the appropriate choice.
Sailesh Panchang
Deque Systems
From: Karla Kmetz
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 2:31PM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | Next message →
Thank you Sailesh. I don't have much option to do anything with the code,
but it is helpful to know that some screen reading software will encounter
the double label well. Do screen readers skip over empty form labels?
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Sailesh Panchang <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > 1. You are correct, the question and the help text are both being
> > associated as labels for a single input element. This is technically
> > incorrect, but some screen readers seem to handle this OK, but there
> > is no guarantee that all screen readers will.
> >
> Sailesh: As a matter of fact it is technically correct to associate 2
> labels with one input control. Both 'for' values should have to match
> the 'id'value. It is right to say that some AT handle it right ... it
> is user agent dependent.
> I'd perhaps use one label to include the help text if it is adjacent
> to question text. Else aria-describedby may have wider user agent
> support than 2 labels.
> > 2. All of the questions are coded as labels, but sometimes those
> > labels aren't explicitly tied to the following choices, such as
> > multiple choice questions made with check boxes or radio buttons. What
> > is really needed is a different model of presenting the questions and
> > choices. Some question types, like multiple choice, in most cases
> > should probably be implemented with a legend for the fieldset. This
> > raises the problem then of some questions being coded as labels and
> > some as fieldsets. There are other solutions to this problem, such as
> > using headings to denote each question, or else using aria-label or
> > aria-labelledby attributes.
> Sailesh: Fieldset/legend is the appropriate solution. Well if the
> structure of the question and answer choices are different, they
> justify different markup. It does not have to be the same as for
> question text with input type=text.
> Unless custom controls that do not support HTML labelling methods are
> used, there's no need for aria-label or labelledby. Use of heading too
> is not the appropriate choice.
> Sailesh Panchang
> Deque Systems
> > > >
--
*Karla Kmetz, M.Ed.*
Instructional Designer
Distance Learning and Instructional Media Services
University of South Florida St. Petersburg, POY 239
Phone: 727-873-4474
From: Stella Mudd
Date: Thu, Apr 19 2012 3:20PM
Subject: Re: Google Forms: Label issues
← Previous message | No next message
Consider using surveygizmo.com
On Thursday, April 19, 2012, Karla Kmetz wrote:
> Thank you Sailesh. I don't have much option to do anything with the code,
> but it is helpful to know that some screen reading software will encounter
> the double label well. Do screen readers skip over empty form labels?
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Sailesh Panchang <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > > 1. You are correct, the question and the help text are both being
> > > associated as labels for a single input element. This is technically
> > > incorrect, but some screen readers seem to handle this OK, but there
> > > is no guarantee that all screen readers will.
> > >
> > Sailesh: As a matter of fact it is technically correct to associate 2
> > labels with one input control. Both 'for' values should have to match
> > the 'id'value. It is right to say that some AT handle it right ... it
> > is user agent dependent.
> > I'd perhaps use one label to include the help text if it is adjacent
> > to question text. Else aria-describedby may have wider user agent
> > support than 2 labels.
> > > 2. All of the questions are coded as labels, but sometimes those
> > > labels aren't explicitly tied to the following choices, such as
> > > multiple choice questions made with check boxes or radio buttons. What
> > > is really needed is a different model of presenting the questions and
> > > choices. Some question types, like multiple choice, in most cases
> > > should probably be implemented with a legend for the fieldset. This
> > > raises the problem then of some questions being coded as labels and
> > > some as fieldsets. There are other solutions to this problem, such as
> > > using headings to denote each question, or else using aria-label or
> > > aria-labelledby attributes.
> > Sailesh: Fieldset/legend is the appropriate solution. Well if the
> > structure of the question and answer choices are different, they
> > justify different markup. It does not have to be the same as for
> > question text with input type=text.
> > Unless custom controls that do not support HTML labelling methods are
> > used, there's no need for aria-label or labelledby. Use of heading too
> > is not the appropriate choice.
> > Sailesh Panchang
> > Deque Systems
> > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
> *Karla Kmetz, M.Ed.*
> Instructional Designer
> Distance Learning and Instructional Media Services
> University of South Florida St. Petersburg, POY 239
> Phone: 727-873-4474
> > > >