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Thread: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first

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Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Mon, May 07 2012 5:15PM
Subject: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
No previous message | Next message →

A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the first column. Pseudo-code below:

<table>
<tr>
<th scope="col">col 1</th>
<th scope="col">col 2</th>
<th scope="col">col 3</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>data1</td>
<th scope="row">row header1</th>
<td>data2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>data3</td>
<th scope="row">row header2</th>
<td>data4</td>
</tr>
</table>

When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2" and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".

Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and place actions in the first column.

Thanks,
Jesse

---
Jesse Hausler
Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762

From: Stella Mudd
Date: Mon, May 07 2012 6:12PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There are
> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row headers
> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
> first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance, if
> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am
> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > >

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Mon, May 07 2012 8:40PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Jesse,

> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and place actions in the first column.
By actions, I assume you mean like edit/delete/update. Is this
correct? If it is, I would probably recommend that you use the
headers/id method over scope to force it to read.

--
Ryan E. Benson


On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today.  There are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col".  For the row headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
>                <tr>
>                                <th scope="col">col 1</th>
>                                <th scope="col">col 2</th>
>                                <th scope="col">col 3</th>
>                </tr>
>                <tr>
>                                <td>data1</td>
>                                <th scope="row">row header1</th>
>                                <td>data2</td>
>                </tr>
>                <tr>
>                                <td>data3</td>
>                                <th scope="row">row header2</th>
>                                <td>data4</td>
>                </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading.  For instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2" and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > >

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 5:10PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr> <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th> <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th> <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr> <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td> </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th> <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr> <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr> </table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There are
> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row headers
> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
> first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance, if
> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am
> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > >

From: lucia greco
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 5:13PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to
speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 5:33PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

For me it's always announced the headers of a cell in one tone and changed to higher (or maybe it's lower) pitch to announce the content of the cell.

Is there a different command I should be using to query the AT for my headers?

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of lucia greco
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the
> Ctrl+Alt+cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>

From: lucia greco
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 5:38PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Its only only read that information to me as I move around in table mode. If
I say speak current cell it should only read the content I think what
happens when you move by cell. Use insert t then use the arrow keys see if
that speaks the headers
Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:33 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

For me it's always announced the headers of a cell in one tone and changed
to higher (or maybe it's lower) pitch to announce the content of the cell.

Is there a different command I should be using to query the AT for my
headers?

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of lucia greco
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to
speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the
> Ctrl+Alt+cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 5:53PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

So I used the Insert + Space, followed by T to enter the table layer. I then used the arrow keys to navigate the table. As experienced before, the row header is not announced for cells to the left of the <th> cell. Additionally, removing the scope="row" degraded things such that the cells to the right of the <th> also did not identify the row header.

It's looking like this is a limitation of jaws. I'm curious to see how NVDA responds.

Thanks all for your help and tips.

Jesse


On 5/8/12 4:38 PM, "lucia greco" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Its only only read that information to me as I move around in table mode. If
I say speak current cell it should only read the content I think what
happens when you move by cell. Use insert t then use the arrow keys see if
that speaks the headers
Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:33 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

For me it's always announced the headers of a cell in one tone and changed
to higher (or maybe it's lower) pitch to announce the content of the cell.

Is there a different command I should be using to query the AT for my
headers?

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of lucia greco
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to
speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the
> Ctrl+Alt+cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: lucia greco
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 6:04PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Ok I had to know.
I went to the web training pages for jaws and you have a bug with jaws.
Smile
Even on their sample table ware the second Colom is the header it does not
speak the header. I so rarely find a well-marked up table I was confusing
what does happen with what should happen. Yes the ctrl alt 5 does read the
header. But not in the first Colom. Even on their sample tables smile .
sorry sometimes I need to step back and remember that the norm is bad code
not good code and sometimes it's just that the screen reader also can be at
fault smile

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:33 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

For me it's always announced the headers of a cell in one tone and changed
to higher (or maybe it's lower) pitch to announce the content of the cell.

Is there a different command I should be using to query the AT for my
headers?

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of lucia greco
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to
speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the
> Ctrl+Alt+cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Tue, May 08 2012 6:10PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Sounds good. I'll see if I can inform Freedom Scientific.

I tested in NVDA. It's very inconsistent. It pretty much always reads the column headers, but only sometimes reads the row headers. But sometimes it does read the row header for my data cell to the left of my <th>... So there's something.

Take care,
Jesse




On 5/8/12 5:04 PM, "lucia greco" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Ok I had to know.
I went to the web training pages for jaws and you have a bug with jaws.
Smile
Even on their sample table ware the second Colom is the header it does not
speak the header. I so rarely find a well-marked up table I was confusing
what does happen with what should happen. Yes the ctrl alt 5 does read the
header. But not in the first Colom. Even on their sample tables smile .
sorry sometimes I need to step back and remember that the norm is bad code
not good code and sometimes it's just that the screen reader also can be at
fault smile

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:33 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

For me it's always announced the headers of a cell in one tone and changed
to higher (or maybe it's lower) pitch to announce the content of the cell.

Is there a different command I should be using to query the AT for my
headers?

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of lucia greco
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Hi:
The ctrl alt 5 command reads the current cell I don't think it is meant to
speak the

Lucia Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
UC Berkeley
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the
first

Ryan and Stella,

I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.

Thanks,
Jesse

<table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
<td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
<td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
<th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
</tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
<th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
<tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
</table>


On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and
> not the first column. Pseudo-code below:
>
> <table>
> <tr>
> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data1</td>
> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> <td>data2</td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
> <td>data3</td>
> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> <td>data4</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
>
> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers
> were only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For
> instance, if I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press
> Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the
> Ctrl+Alt+cell
with text, "data2"
> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>
> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> place actions in the first column.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> ---
> Jesse Hausler
> Sr. Accessibility Specialist |
> salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Sat, May 12 2012 1:36PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Jesse,

> I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success.  Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command

[Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.

--
Ryan E. Benson


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Ryan and Stella,
>
> I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success.  Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> <table>        <tr>            <th scope="col">Day</th>            <th scope="col">Week</th>            <th scope="col">Year</th>        </tr>        <tr>            <td>Monday</td>            <th >2012</th>            <td>10</td>        </tr>        <tr>            <th >1982</th>            <td>Wednesday</td>            <td>9</td>        </tr>        <tr>            <th>2000</th>            <td>Thursday</td>            <td>15</td>        </tr> </table> <table>        <tr>            <th id="dy">Day</th>            <th id="wk">Week</th>            <th id="yr">Year</th>        </tr>        <tr>            <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td>            <th id="th3">2012</th>            <td headers="yr th3">10</td>        </tr> </table>
>
>
> On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
> be read.  Give it a try and let us know.   Thanks!!
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today.  There are
>> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col".  For the row headers
>> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
>> first column. Pseudo-code below:
>>
>> <table>
>>                <tr>
>>                                <th scope="col">col 1</th>
>>                                <th scope="col">col 2</th>
>>                                <th scope="col">col 3</th>
>>                </tr>
>>                <tr>
>>                                <td>data1</td>
>>                                <th scope="row">row header1</th>
>>                                <td>data2</td>
>>                </tr>
>>                <tr>
>>                                <td>data3</td>
>>                                <th scope="row">row header2</th>
>>                                <td>data4</td>
>>                </tr>
>> </table>
>>
>> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
>> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading.  For instance, if
>> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am
>> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2"
>> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>>
>> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
>> place actions in the first column.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jesse
>>
>> ---
>> Jesse Hausler
>> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
>> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>>
>> >> >> >>
> > > >
> > >

From: Stella Mudd
Date: Sat, May 12 2012 8:48PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Jesse,

Since the example you gave is considered a complex table, I guess, using
the headers attribute should suffice. However, JAWS seems to have a bug
and will not announce the row header. VoiceOver doesn't like this as well,
but NVDA works great! The only decent cross browser implementation I was
able to get is by using the headers and aria-describedby attributes.

http://jsfiddle.net/stellamudd/HXRDQ/

What a pain. Jesse, can you ensure Freedom Scientific is aware? Thanks
for bringing this problem to light.

- Stella


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Jesse,
>
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command
>
> [Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
> header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
> one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
> explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
> the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> > Ryan and Stella,
> >
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jesse
> >
> > <table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
> scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
> <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
> <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
> <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
> </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
> <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
> id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
> </table>
> >
> >
> > On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right
> should
> > be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
> >
> >> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are
> >> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers
> >> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
> >> first column. Pseudo-code below:
> >>
> >> <table>
> >> <tr>
> >> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data1</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> >> <td>data2</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data3</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> >> <td>data4</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> </table>
> >>
> >> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
> >> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance,
> if
> >> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I
> am
> >> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text,
> "data2"
> >> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
> >>
> >> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> >> place actions in the first column.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jesse
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Jesse Hausler
> >> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<
> http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> >> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Wed, May 16 2012 11:33AM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks for looking into this more Ryan.

To clarify, I only did one method at a time. The results were always the same however.

Jesse


On 5/12/12 12:36 PM, "Ryan E. Benson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Jesse,

> I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command

[Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.

--
Ryan E. Benson


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Ryan and Stella,
>
> I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
> <table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr> <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th> <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th> <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr> <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td> </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th> <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr> <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr> </table>
>
>
> On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right should
> be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There are
>> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row headers
>> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
>> first column. Pseudo-code below:
>>
>> <table>
>> <tr>
>> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
>> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
>> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
>> </tr>
>> <tr>
>> <td>data1</td>
>> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
>> <td>data2</td>
>> </tr>
>> <tr>
>> <td>data3</td>
>> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
>> <td>data4</td>
>> </tr>
>> </table>
>>
>> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
>> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance, if
>> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I am
>> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text, "data2"
>> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
>>
>> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
>> place actions in the first column.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jesse
>>
>> ---
>> Jesse Hausler
>> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<http://www.salesforce.com/>;
>> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
>>
>> >> >> >>
> > > >
> > >

From: Stella Mudd
Date: Wed, May 16 2012 12:30PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

Jesse,

I would appreciate a thank you as well, as I spent a lot of time doing
testing for you and coming up with what I think is a viable solution.
Also, please let us know if you plan on reporting the issues to Freedom
Scientific. As an FYI, to ensure accessibility across platforms, all the
attributes, aria-describedby, headers, and scope are all important.

Thank you.

-Stella

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Thanks for looking into this more Ryan.
>
> To clarify, I only did one method at a time. The results were always the
> same however.
>
> Jesse
>
>
> On 5/12/12 12:36 PM, "Ryan E. Benson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Jesse,
>
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command
>
> [Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
> header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
> one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
> explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
> the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> > Ryan and Stella,
> >
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jesse
> >
> > <table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
> scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
> <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
> <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
> <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
> </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
> <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
> id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
> </table>
> >
> >
> > On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right
> should
> > be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
> >
> >> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are
> >> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers
> >> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
> >> first column. Pseudo-code below:
> >>
> >> <table>
> >> <tr>
> >> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data1</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> >> <td>data2</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data3</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> >> <td>data4</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> </table>
> >>
> >> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
> >> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance,
> if
> >> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I
> am
> >> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text,
> "data2"
> >> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
> >>
> >> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> >> place actions in the first column.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jesse
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Jesse Hausler
> >> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<
> http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> >> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Jesse Hausler
Date: Wed, May 16 2012 2:53PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

My apologies Stella!

I didn't see your most recent reply until just now. I need to start sorting my WebAIM folder by Subject so I don't miss anything.

You certainly did put much effort into this, and I appreciate it - thank you.

I'll reach out to Freedom. Is there a preferred channel?

Jesse

On 5/16/12 11:30 AM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Jesse,

I would appreciate a thank you as well, as I spent a lot of time doing
testing for you and coming up with what I think is a viable solution.
Also, please let us know if you plan on reporting the issues to Freedom
Scientific. As an FYI, to ensure accessibility across platforms, all the
attributes, aria-describedby, headers, and scope are all important.

Thank you.

-Stella

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Thanks for looking into this more Ryan.
>
> To clarify, I only did one method at a time. The results were always the
> same however.
>
> Jesse
>
>
> On 5/12/12 12:36 PM, "Ryan E. Benson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Jesse,
>
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command
>
> [Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
> header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
> one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
> explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
> the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> > Ryan and Stella,
> >
> > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jesse
> >
> > <table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
> scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
> <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
> <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
> <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
> </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
> <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
> <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
> id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
> </table>
> >
> >
> > On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right
> should
> > be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
> >
> >> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables today. There
> are
> >> header cells for all of the columns with scope="col". For the row
> headers
> >> , the second column of cells are marked as TH scope="row", and not the
> >> first column. Pseudo-code below:
> >>
> >> <table>
> >> <tr>
> >> <th scope="col">col 1</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 2</th>
> >> <th scope="col">col 3</th>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data1</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header1</th>
> >> <td>data2</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> <tr>
> >> <td>data3</td>
> >> <th scope="row">row header2</th>
> >> <td>data4</td>
> >> </tr>
> >> </table>
> >>
> >> When navigating the table using JAWS, we found that the row headers were
> >> only read on data cells to the right of the row heading. For instance,
> if
> >> I am navigated to the cell with text, "data1" and press Ctrl+Alt+5 - I
> am
> >> only being told the heading "Col 1". If I am on the cell with text,
> "data2"
> >> and press that command - I am told my headings are "col 3, row header1".
> >>
> >> Any thoughts? We often place our row headers in the second column and
> >> place actions in the first column.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jesse
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Jesse Hausler
> >> Sr. Accessibility Specialist | salesforce.com<
> http://www.salesforce.com/>;
> >> Tel (415) 536-8902 | Fax (415) 944-1762
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Stella Mudd
Date: Wed, May 16 2012 3:19PM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | Next message →

No worries Jesse. I'm not sure about how to contact Freedom Scientific
about bugs. Hopefully someone will chime in.

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012, Jesse Hausler wrote:

> My apologies Stella!
>
> I didn't see your most recent reply until just now. I need to start
> sorting my WebAIM folder by Subject so I don't miss anything.
>
> You certainly did put much effort into this, and I appreciate it - thank
> you.
>
> I'll reach out to Freedom. Is there a preferred channel?
>
> Jesse
>
> On 5/16/12 11:30 AM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Jesse,
>
> I would appreciate a thank you as well, as I spent a lot of time doing
> testing for you and coming up with what I think is a viable solution.
> Also, please let us know if you plan on reporting the issues to Freedom
> Scientific. As an FYI, to ensure accessibility across platforms, all the
> attributes, aria-describedby, headers, and scope are all important.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Stella
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks for looking into this more Ryan.
> >
> > To clarify, I only did one method at a time. The results were always the
> > same however.
> >
> > Jesse
> >
> >
> > On 5/12/12 12:36 PM, "Ryan E. Benson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > Jesse,
> >
> > > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> > thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> > not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command
> >
> > [Ryan]: I just took a look, and you either use the scope method or the
> > header/id method, not both. I don't have that level of knowledge which
> > one trumps the other, but my gut says headers/id because it is
> > explicitly binding things together. Given that, you didn't fully bind
> > the cells, therefore it doesn't fully work.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan E. Benson
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > wrote:
> > > Ryan and Stella,
> > >
> > > I tried both of your suggestions but have found no success. Any other
> > thoughts? Here is my code. In both cases the <th> in the second column is
> > not read by jaws13 when using the Ctrl+Alt+5 command.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jesse
> > >
> > > <table> <tr> <th scope="col">Day</th> <th
> > scope="col">Week</th> <th scope="col">Year</th> </tr>
> > <tr> <td>Monday</td> <th >2012</th>
> > <td>10</td> </tr> <tr> <th >1982</th>
> > <td>Wednesday</td> <td>9</td> </tr> <tr>
> > <th>2000</th> <td>Thursday</td> <td>15</td>
> > </tr> </table> <table> <tr> <th id="dy">Day</th>
> > <th id="wk">Week</th> <th id="yr">Year</th> </tr>
> > <tr> <td headers="dy th3">Monday</td> <th
> > id="th3">2012</th> <td headers="yr th3">10</td> </tr>
> > </table>
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/7/12 5:12 PM, "Stella Mudd" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe if you remove the scope="row", cells to the left and right
> > should
> > > be read. Give it a try and let us know. Thanks!!
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jesse Hausler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> A colleague and I were playing around with simple tables tod

From: David Farough
Date: Thu, May 17 2012 8:07AM
Subject: Re: Tables with Header cells in the second column, not the first
← Previous message | No next message

The email address to send bugs to is = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = . Be
prepared to provide a sample page or code that they can use to reproduce
the problem. Also provide steps to take to reproduce the issue.

David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779