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Thread: RE: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Ian.Lloyd@nationwide.co.uk
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2002 4:56AM
Subject: RE: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?
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Query: how do most list members feel about enclosing alt text within the
square brackets as noted above? Does it pose any accessibility issues with
any of the alternative devices out there? (I can't think of any) Is it
"annoying" to non-visual users employing speech synthesisers on a regular
basis? Could it be a "Best Practices" recommendation floated to the Working
Group of WCAG (v2) and other Accessibility organizations?
- ------------------------
Actually, I would question why they are used. I've not seen it written
anywhere to use brackets - have I missed something?
Generally, I would avoid any punctuation that's not completely necessary.
Anyway, hopefully you good people can explain the square bracket thing to
me.
Thanks
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From: kynn@idyllmtn.com
Date: Mon, Aug 26 2002 4:24PM
Subject: Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?
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> Generally, I would avoid any punctuation that's not completely necessary.
I just want to point out the irony of this statement coupled with the
rest of this email message, which i have quoted below. Bail out now
if you don't want to hear or read it again!
Methinks one who includes PGP signatures, warnings about viruses
and cautions about misdirected email should consider practicing what he
preaches regarding unnecessary punctuation!
--Kynn
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> ********************************************************************
> The contents of this email are intended exclusively for the
> addressee. If you are not the addressee you must not read
> use or disclose the email contents ; you should notify us
> immediately [ by clicking "Reply" ] and delete this email.
>
> Nationwide monitors e-mails to ensure its systems operate
> effectively and to minimise the risk of viruses. Whilst it has
> taken reasonable steps to scan this email, it does not
> accept liability for any virus that may be contained in it.
> ********************************************************************
>
> Query: how do most list members feel about enclosing alt text within the
> square brackets as noted above? Does it pose any accessibility issues with
> any of the alternative devices out there? (I can't think of any) Is it
> "annoying" to non-visual users employing speech synthesisers on a regular
> basis? Could it be a "Best Practices" recommendation floated to the Working
> Group of WCAG (v2) and other Accessibility organizations?
>
> - ------------------------
>
> Actually, I would question why they are used. I've not seen it written
> anywhere to use brackets - have I missed something?
>
> Generally, I would avoid any punctuation that's not completely necessary.
>
> Anyway, hopefully you good people can explain the square bracket thing to
> me.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPsdk version 1.1.1 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc.
>
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> cTsER4V4Qm//BwdlMLud+Gy9JV+LH245+gJy/VXS4Xwb5vPDN8VOR4UVZ7NL01Wr
> h3KS/SvC7MGuwjIb878lyjgLCeEDXgimZXDckDe123XDjF8HSKSCcED3aXr/q2mZ
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> YGx0pjjD3TQcMymikgCh8qy+R/u6hc0eM4i19uuxYW7ug/QhhyCqEg=> =ffUp
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
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From: Tim Luoma
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2002 6:57AM
Subject: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
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I generally enclose all ALT texts that aren't empty in ( ) not for
screen readers but for text-browsers like Lynx.
For example, if you hit www.tntluoma.com with Lynx, you would have seen
Welcome
Tim and Tracey with Ethan
where the 2nd line is an ALT text. There's no indication at all that
the 2nd line is ALT text!
So I changed it to "Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan" which gave me
Welcome
Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan
which was a little better, but still could be improved, and so I thought
Welcome
(Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan)
made it clearer that it was a break from the regular flow of text
TjL
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From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2002 1:13PM
Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
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exactly my thinking, except that normal parenthisis () tend to be used for
items such as asides (I do this all the time) or extensions of thought or
word, such as: F.B.I (Federal Bureau of Investigation). This is why I asked
about square brackets instead... I cannot think of a "standard" usage of
them, yet by employing them in the alt text it achieves the goal of
differentiating the alt text from regular text.
JF
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Luoma [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: August 19, 2002 9:51 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo"
> adequate in an ALT text?)
>
>
>
> I generally enclose all ALT texts that aren't empty in ( ) not for
> screen readers but for text-browsers like Lynx.
>
> For example, if you hit www.tntluoma.com with Lynx, you would have seen
>
> Welcome
> Tim and Tracey with Ethan
>
> where the 2nd line is an ALT text. There's no indication at all that
> the 2nd line is ALT text!
>
> So I changed it to "Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan" which gave me
>
>
> Welcome
> Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan
>
> which was a little better, but still could be improved, and so I thought
>
>
> Welcome
> (Picture of Tim and Tracey with Ethan)
>
> made it clearer that it was a break from the regular flow of text
>
> TjL
>
>
>
> ----
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> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
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From: Timothy J. Luoma
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2002 9:31PM
Subject: Re: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
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John Foliot - bytown internet wrote:
> exactly my thinking, except that normal parenthisis () tend to be used for
> items such as asides (I do this all the time) or extensions of thought or
> word, such as: F.B.I (Federal Bureau of Investigation). This is why I asked
> about square brackets instead... I cannot think of a "standard" usage of
> them, yet by employing them in the alt text it achieves the goal of
> differentiating the alt text from regular text.
You're right (I do that too) ... good point... so at some point I'll
have to change them (from () to [])
thx
--
Coming soon:
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http://www.tntluoma.com/opera/lover/
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From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Tue, Aug 20 2002 9:33AM
Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
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When you use [ ] around the alt text, it will appear as [[alt text content]]
in the IBM Home Page Reader text view because HPR uses those square brackets
in its text view to visually set image information from other text.
Luckily screen readers don't normally speak those brackets.
Jim
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
Evaluation of web evaluation tools at http://jimthatcher.com/erx.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy J. Luoma [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 11:23 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo"
adequate in an ALT text?)
John Foliot - bytown internet wrote:
> exactly my thinking, except that normal parenthisis () tend to be used for
> items such as asides (I do this all the time) or extensions of thought or
> word, such as: F.B.I (Federal Bureau of Investigation). This is why I
asked
> about square brackets instead... I cannot think of a "standard" usage of
> them, yet by employing them in the alt text it achieves the goal of
> differentiating the alt text from regular text.
You're right (I do that too) ... good point... so at some point I'll
have to change them (from () to [])
thx
--
Coming soon:
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http://www.tntluoma.com/opera/lover/
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From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Tue, Aug 20 2002 2:36PM
Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
← Previous message | Next message →
OK Jim, but is this *good* or *bad*? Most users of HPR don't read it, they
hear it, and as you have noted screen readers *generally* don't read out
loud the square brackets.
What I suggest replicates what HPR does for written output - enclose alt
text in a container which differentiates it's content from other text which
may surround the image (in fact, that's where I got the idea). Is [[image
alt]] annoying, intrusive, or cause problems for assistive technologies and
their users? Seems not.
JF
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Thatcher [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: August 20, 2002 12:24 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo"
> adequate in an ALT text?)
>
>
> When you use [ ] around the alt text, it will appear as [[alt
> text content]]
> in the IBM Home Page Reader text view because HPR uses those
> square brackets
> in its text view to visually set image information from other text.
>
> Luckily screen readers don't normally speak those brackets.
>
> Jim
> Accessibility Consulting
> http://jimthatcher.com
> 512-306-0931
> Evaluation of web evaluation tools at http://jimthatcher.com/erx.htm
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From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Tue, Aug 20 2002 3:24PM
Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo" adequate in an ALT text?)
← Previous message | No next message
John,
I was about to reply that it isn't good or bad, that I don't like adding the
brackets, that it was a matter of style. But that statement only holds for
images that are not links. When they are links, then the first letter access
in a list of links doesn't work with the brackets ... does it?
Jim
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
Evaluation of web evaluation tools at http://jimthatcher.com/erx.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foliot - bytown internet [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:28 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo"
adequate in an ALT text?)
OK Jim, but is this *good* or *bad*? Most users of HPR don't read it, they
hear it, and as you have noted screen readers *generally* don't read out
loud the square brackets.
What I suggest replicates what HPR does for written output - enclose alt
text in a container which differentiates it's content from other text which
may surround the image (in fact, that's where I got the idea). Is [[image
alt]] annoying, intrusive, or cause problems for assistive technologies and
their users? Seems not.
JF
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Thatcher [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: August 20, 2002 12:24 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: RE: Using Brackets around ALT text (Re: Is "this-or-that logo"
> adequate in an ALT text?)
>
>
> When you use [ ] around the alt text, it will appear as [[alt
> text content]]
> in the IBM Home Page Reader text view because HPR uses those
> square brackets
> in its text view to visually set image information from other text.
>
> Luckily screen readers don't normally speak those brackets.
>
> Jim
> Accessibility Consulting
> http://jimthatcher.com
> 512-306-0931
> Evaluation of web evaluation tools at http://jimthatcher.com/erx.htm
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