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Thread: Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF

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From: Ilana Gordon
Date: Thu, Sep 29 2016 3:00PM
Subject: Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF
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We've noticed a quirky issue that happens when we export a styled Word doc
to PDF. Every line of text has an invisible (white) background image in the
form of a rectangular Path. They appear to be in the place where background
color would be if there were any. They are included in the exported tags
and therefore need to be artifacted if not outright deleted.

Does anyone have any knowledge about this and so we can avoid that step in
the tagging process?

Ilana Gordon

--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Thu, Sep 29 2016 3:07PM
Subject: Re: Question about paths generated after export of Word doc toPDF
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Confirm in word that the background fill color is not set to white - the selection should be no color.

I have seen the JAWS screen reader mutter some sort of gibberish when there is a background color present that generates a path. We see this most frequently in tables.


Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:00 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF

We've noticed a quirky issue that happens when we export a styled Word doc to PDF. Every line of text has an invisible (white) background image in the form of a rectangular Path. They appear to be in the place where background color would be if there were any. They are included in the exported tags and therefore need to be artifacted if not outright deleted.

Does anyone have any knowledge about this and so we can avoid that step in the tagging process?

Ilana Gordon

--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Sep 30 2016 1:16PM
Subject: Re: Question about paths generated after export of Word doc toPDF
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We've seen it also with border colors in tables, as well as most of the text box designs in Word.

This needs to be fixed by the screen reader applications. To force content creators to avoid using color backgrounds and borders is insane; these are often needed to clarify the information for those who are sighted.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —




-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 5:07 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF

Confirm in word that the background fill color is not set to white - the selection should be no color.

I have seen the JAWS screen reader mutter some sort of gibberish when there is a background color present that generates a path. We see this most frequently in tables.


Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:00 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF

We've noticed a quirky issue that happens when we export a styled Word doc to PDF. Every line of text has an invisible (white) background image in the form of a rectangular Path. They appear to be in the place where background color would be if there were any. They are included in the exported tags and therefore need to be artifacted if not outright deleted.

Does anyone have any knowledge about this and so we can avoid that step in the tagging process?

Ilana Gordon

--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Fri, Sep 30 2016 1:26PM
Subject: Re: Question about paths generated after export of Word doc toPDF
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> This needs to be fixed by the screen reader applications.

It’s more that authoring and/or PDF creation software needs to offer users the right tools and functionality:

- Invisible backgrounds should be marked as artifact.
- Graphics objects that convey information (which may include colored backgrounds, depending) must be tagged appropriately.

With properly structured files, AT (that understands tagged PDF) “just works”.

> To force content creators to avoid using color backgrounds and borders is insane; these are often needed to clarify the information for those who are sighted.

Of course, authors need this flexibility, and it would be nuts to prohibit it.

As above, the problem with the authoring application, not the screen-reader.

Please, file your bugs in the general direction of the people who make the software that you use to make your PDFs.

Duff.

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Sep 30 2016 1:42PM
Subject: Re: Question about paths generated after export of Worddoc toPDF
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You're right, Duff. Thanks for the correction.

This is a problem with Microsoft or Microsoft + Adobe Acrobat (the exporter plug-in).

And yes, I've filed my bug reports. Zillions. For ages. Will we ever see it fixed?!!

--Bevi Chagnon

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Duff Johnson
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 3:27 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF

> This needs to be fixed by the screen reader applications.

It’s more that authoring and/or PDF creation software needs to offer users the right tools and functionality:

- Invisible backgrounds should be marked as artifact.
- Graphics objects that convey information (which may include colored backgrounds, depending) must be tagged appropriately.

With properly structured files, AT (that understands tagged PDF) “just works”.

> To force content creators to avoid using color backgrounds and borders is insane; these are often needed to clarify the information for those who are sighted.

Of course, authors need this flexibility, and it would be nuts to prohibit it.

As above, the problem with the authoring application, not the screen-reader.

Please, file your bugs in the general direction of the people who make the software that you use to make your PDFs.

Duff.

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Fri, Sep 30 2016 1:50PM
Subject: Re: Question about paths generated after export of Worddoc toPDF
← Previous message | No next message

> You're right, Duff. Thanks for the correction.
>
> This is a problem with Microsoft or Microsoft + Adobe Acrobat (the exporter plug-in).

Sadly so.

I’ve not actually looked into whether or not their current paradigm for vector graphics allows for applying logical structure to (for example) a cell’s background.

Since Microsoft still hasn’t figured out table row headers I’m not (yet) that optimistic.

> And yes, I've filed my bug reports. Zillions. For ages. Will we ever see it fixed?!!

Microsoft is now stating their intention to follow PDF/UA.

As such, it becomes possible to hold them (and others!) to account in very specific terms for these sorts of details.

Duff.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Duff Johnson
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 3:27 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question about paths generated after export of Word doc to PDF
>
>> This needs to be fixed by the screen reader applications.
>
> It’s more that authoring and/or PDF creation software needs to offer users the right tools and functionality:
>
> - Invisible backgrounds should be marked as artifact.
> - Graphics objects that convey information (which may include colored backgrounds, depending) must be tagged appropriately.
>
> With properly structured files, AT (that understands tagged PDF) “just works”.
>
>> To force content creators to avoid using color backgrounds and borders is insane; these are often needed to clarify the information for those who are sighted.
>
> Of course, authors need this flexibility, and it would be nuts to prohibit it.
>
> As above, the problem with the authoring application, not the screen-reader.
>
> Please, file your bugs in the general direction of the people who make the software that you use to make your PDFs.
>
> Duff.
>
> > > >