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Thread: Time formatting

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Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Joy Relton
Date: Mon, Apr 17 2017 8:25AM
Subject: Time formatting
No previous message | Next message →

I agree with you.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating

Hi, all.

I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date formatting:

"My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites. However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better). Something like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"

My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have their verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is accessible.

Your ideas would be most welcome,
Rachel


Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
110 Russell Hall
Box 870248
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
Phone 205-348-0216
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu

From: Mcmanus, Kristian A
Date: Mon, Apr 17 2017 12:50PM
Subject: Re: Time formatting
← Previous message | Next message →

This is just a guess. What if you used the HTML5 Time tag? I will try it here but I don’t have access to JAWS. Anybody try this yet?

Kristian McManus
Digital Accessibility Tech. Analyst - ITS-UCSF


On 4/17/17, 7:25 AM, "Joy Relton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I agree with you.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating

Hi, all.

I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date formatting:

"My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites. However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better). Something like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"

My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have their verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is accessible.

Your ideas would be most welcome,
Rachel


Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
110 Russell Hall
Box 870248
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
Phone 205-348-0216
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Mon, Apr 17 2017 1:19PM
Subject: Re: Time formatting
← Previous message | Next message →

Here is something to keep in mind for anyone who tests with a screen reader...

For those of us who depend on screen readers and use them all the time, we tend to become use to how the screen reader reads text. As long as you use common formats for text information, we should be able to pick up that information--even if the way the screen reader speaks it sounds unusual.

In fact, sometimes if you listen very carefully to a screen reader user talking, you can catch that we will pronounce words the same as our screen readers do--and we are not even aware of it.

However, it might also be worthwhile to test the time element to see if it influences how a screen reader reads time information. While using a common time format for the text works--there is nothing wrong with using another method if it produces a better user experience.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mcmanus, Kristian A
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:51 PM
To: Joy Relton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Time formatting

This is just a guess. What if you used the HTML5 Time tag? I will try it here but I don’t have access to JAWS. Anybody try this yet?

Kristian McManus
Digital Accessibility Tech. Analyst - ITS-UCSF


On 4/17/17, 7:25 AM, "Joy Relton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

I agree with you.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating

Hi, all.

I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date formatting:

"My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites. However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better). Something like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"

My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have their verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is accessible.

Your ideas would be most welcome,
Rachel


Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
110 Russell Hall
Box 870248
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
Phone 205-348-0216
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Mon, Apr 17 2017 1:36PM
Subject: Re: Time formatting
← Previous message | Next message →

well said Tim. this speaks to the criticleness of using reel people in
your testing. and yes i often speak words the way a screen reader does it
took one of my coworkers 8 months to ask me what i was saying when i kept
saying seo not S E O smile. actually i did not even know what seo
meant the first time i herd it so it was always seo for me even though i
new it was S E O
lucy

Lucia Greco
Web Accessibility Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Tim Harshbarger <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Here is something to keep in mind for anyone who tests with a screen
> reader...
>
> For those of us who depend on screen readers and use them all the time, we
> tend to become use to how the screen reader reads text. As long as you use
> common formats for text information, we should be able to pick up that
> information--even if the way the screen reader speaks it sounds unusual.
>
> In fact, sometimes if you listen very carefully to a screen reader user
> talking, you can catch that we will pronounce words the same as our screen
> readers do--and we are not even aware of it.
>
> However, it might also be worthwhile to test the time element to see if it
> influences how a screen reader reads time information. While using a common
> time format for the text works--there is nothing wrong with using another
> method if it produces a better user experience.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Mcmanus, Kristian A
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:51 PM
> To: Joy Relton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Time formatting
>
> This is just a guess. What if you used the HTML5 Time tag? I will try it
> here but I don’t have access to JAWS. Anybody try this yet?
>
> Kristian McManus
> Digital Accessibility Tech. Analyst - ITS-UCSF
>
>
> On 4/17/17, 7:25 AM, "Joy Relton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I agree with you.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date
> formatting:
>
> "My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites.
> However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read
> choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen
> reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better). Something
> like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and
> accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other
> formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"
>
> My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have their
> verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is
> accessible.
>
> Your ideas would be most welcome,
> Rachel
>
>
> Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
> Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for
> Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
> 110 Russell Hall
> Box 870248
> Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
> Phone 205-348-0216
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
>
>
> > > > > > > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Apr 17 2017 2:06PM
Subject: Re: Time formatting
← Previous message | Next message →

I once managed to screw up a job interview when I said I had a lot of
experience coding in "C number" (i.e. c# which, apparently, is
pronounced "C sharp").
Seeing as I didn't even know how to pronounce it, I did not make it
past that interview,

As for the question, I agree with the other commenters. Just go with
standard formats, let the screen reader vendor and users handle how to
communicate them.
If there is a minor bug and your website helps solve it, it will ake
the screen reader experience on all websites using that standard
technique in future.



On 4/17/17, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> well said Tim. this speaks to the criticleness of using reel people in
> your testing. and yes i often speak words the way a screen reader does it
> took one of my coworkers 8 months to ask me what i was saying when i kept
> saying seo not S E O smile. actually i did not even know what seo
> meant the first time i herd it so it was always seo for me even though i
> new it was S E O
> lucy
>
> Lucia Greco
> Web Accessibility Evangelist
> IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> University of California, Berkeley
> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Tim Harshbarger <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Here is something to keep in mind for anyone who tests with a screen
>> reader...
>>
>> For those of us who depend on screen readers and use them all the time, we
>> tend to become use to how the screen reader reads text. As long as you use
>> common formats for text information, we should be able to pick up that
>> information--even if the way the screen reader speaks it sounds unusual.
>>
>> In fact, sometimes if you listen very carefully to a screen reader user
>> talking, you can catch that we will pronounce words the same as our screen
>> readers do--and we are not even aware of it.
>>
>> However, it might also be worthwhile to test the time element to see if it
>> influences how a screen reader reads time information. While using a
>> common
>> time format for the text works--there is nothing wrong with using another
>> method if it produces a better user experience.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Mcmanus, Kristian A
>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:51 PM
>> To: Joy Relton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' <
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Time formatting
>>
>> This is just a guess. What if you used the HTML5 Time tag? I will try it
>> here but I don’t have access to JAWS. Anybody try this yet?
>>
>> Kristian McManus
>> Digital Accessibility Tech. Analyst - ITS-UCSF
>>
>>
>> On 4/17/17, 7:25 AM, "Joy Relton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating
>>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date
>> formatting:
>>
>> "My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites.
>> However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read
>> choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen
>> reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better). Something
>> like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and
>> accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other
>> formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"
>>
>> My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have their
>> verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is
>> accessible.
>>
>> Your ideas would be most welcome,
>> Rachel
>>
>>
>> Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
>> Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for
>> Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
>> 110 Russell Hall
>> Box 870248
>> Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
>> Phone 205-348-0216
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu
>>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Karl Brown
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2017 4:11AM
Subject: Re: Time formatting
← Previous message | No next message

Speaking content-wise, I avoid saying "8am-12pm" and go with "between 8am
and 12pm" or "8am to 12pm".

I know some people, who don't use screen readers, who get slowed down when
reading a page as the dash looks like a minus symbol. They think they have
to do some maths before remembering it's representing "to" and switching
their mental context back to time ranges.

Speaking plainly usually wins out for me.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:06 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I once managed to screw up a job interview when I said I had a lot of
> experience coding in "C number" (i.e. c# which, apparently, is
> pronounced "C sharp").
> Seeing as I didn't even know how to pronounce it, I did not make it
> past that interview,
>
> As for the question, I agree with the other commenters. Just go with
> standard formats, let the screen reader vendor and users handle how to
> communicate them.
> If there is a minor bug and your website helps solve it, it will ake
> the screen reader experience on all websites using that standard
> technique in future.
>
>
>
> On 4/17/17, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > well said Tim. this speaks to the criticleness of using reel people in
> > your testing. and yes i often speak words the way a screen reader does it
> > took one of my coworkers 8 months to ask me what i was saying when i kept
> > saying seo not S E O smile. actually i did not even know what seo
> > meant the first time i herd it so it was always seo for me even though i
> > new it was S E O
> > lucy
> >
> > Lucia Greco
> > Web Accessibility Evangelist
> > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> > University of California, Berkeley
> > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Tim Harshbarger <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> Here is something to keep in mind for anyone who tests with a screen
> >> reader...
> >>
> >> For those of us who depend on screen readers and use them all the time,
> we
> >> tend to become use to how the screen reader reads text. As long as you
> use
> >> common formats for text information, we should be able to pick up that
> >> information--even if the way the screen reader speaks it sounds unusual.
> >>
> >> In fact, sometimes if you listen very carefully to a screen reader user
> >> talking, you can catch that we will pronounce words the same as our
> screen
> >> readers do--and we are not even aware of it.
> >>
> >> However, it might also be worthwhile to test the time element to see if
> it
> >> influences how a screen reader reads time information. While using a
> >> common
> >> time format for the text works--there is nothing wrong with using
> another
> >> method if it produces a better user experience.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> >> Behalf Of Mcmanus, Kristian A
> >> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:51 PM
> >> To: Joy Relton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' <
> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Time formatting
> >>
> >> This is just a guess. What if you used the HTML5 Time tag? I will try it
> >> here but I don’t have access to JAWS. Anybody try this yet?
> >>
> >> Kristian McManus
> >> Digital Accessibility Tech. Analyst - ITS-UCSF
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/17/17, 7:25 AM, "Joy Relton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree with you.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> >> Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
> >> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:01 AM
> >> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> Subject: [WebAIM] Time formating
> >>
> >> Hi, all.
> >>
> >> I need some advice for a campus group trying to address date
> >> formatting:
> >>
> >> "My office has decided to use AP style on divisional websites.
> >> However, time ranges such as "8 a.m.-12p.m. and 1-5 p.m." can be read
> >> choppily and with a "minus" thrown in there when using the iOS screen
> >> reader (though a desktop screen reader might handle it better).
> Something
> >> like "8 AM-12PM and 1-5 PM" is actually read much more smoothly and
> >> accurately. Is it better to stick with AP style, or to test out other
> >> formats to see what is read best by popular screen readers?"
> >>
> >> My initial thought is that screen reader users will likely have
> their
> >> verbosity set to meet their preferences already and that either is
> >> accessible.
> >>
> >> Your ideas would be most welcome,
> >> Rachel
> >>
> >>
> >> Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
> >> Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for
> >> Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
> >> 110 Russell Hall
> >> Box 870248
> >> Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
> >> Phone 205-348-0216
> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://cit.ua.edu |
> http://accessibility.ua.edu
> >>
> >> > >> > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >



--
Karl Brown
Twitter: @kbdevelops
Skype: kbdevelopment

Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
University of South Australia, 2015