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From: Gosia Wheeler
Date: Mon, May 22 2017 2:15PM
Subject: Background changing
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I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following scenario:

I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background image is changing. There are four different decorative images used for the background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There is sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the background image. Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image rotation stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?

I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those with low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing will be too confusing and they will not be able to tell if the images bring any value to the website experience or not.
Please share your feedback.

From: Karl Brown
Date: Tue, May 23 2017 2:01AM
Subject: Re: Background changing
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2.2.2 <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits-pause> *might *come into
play, even though the images are decorative. Because they're changing and
give some form of information* I'd certainly want to be able to pause it.

I say information*, because it's more in keeping with how a brand wants to
be seen. If the images are totally decorative (could be swapped out with no
loss of understanding from the user) then it'll be harder to argue from a
WCAG perspective.

Away from the guidelines, you're right. People with some cognitive issues
may wonder what's going on and become distressed. And users who zoom in may
end up having issues reading the text as the text gets bigger and spills
over more of the image, which could lead into a failure for colour
contrast.

If the company are using a CMS, there's one other thing they should
consider for accessibility. A typical CMS user doesn't understand web
accessibility, nor does the average marketing professional, so colour
contrast is very likely to fail over time as users switch the images for
new ones. The only way around that is to code something like a block
background colour behind the text, which'll defeat the usual purpose of
text over images.

I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks?

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Gosia Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following scenario:
>
> I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background image is
> changing. There are four different decorative images used for the
> background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There is
> sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the background image.
> Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image rotation
> stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?
>
> I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those with
> low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing will be too
> confusing and they will not be able to tell if the images bring any value
> to the website experience or not.
> Please share your feedback.
>
> > > > >



--
Karl Brown
Twitter: @kbdevelops
Skype: kbdevelopment

Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
University of South Australia, 2015

From: Veronika Jermolina
Date: Tue, May 23 2017 3:57AM
Subject: Re: Background changing
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi all,

My take on SC 2.2.2 Pause stop hide is that if there's movement (lasting
longer than 5 seconds), there must be a mechanism to stop it.
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-pause.html

It may sound quite harsh and most carousels would indeed fail this.

However, from experience of observing people use websites with movement,
this SC is actually based on a real need. People with dyslexia or cognitive
impairments may not be able to read the text when there is movement on the
page. I've seen people scroll any moving elements completely out of view
before they could read it. I would therefore argue that movement on the
page prevents people from perceiving content, which breaks one of four core
WCAG 2.0 principles.

So your concerns are valid I would say.

Thanks,
Vero


On 23 May 2017 at 09:01, Karl Brown < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> 2.2.2 <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits-pause> *might *come into
> play, even though the images are decorative. Because they're changing and
> give some form of information* I'd certainly want to be able to pause it.
>
> I say information*, because it's more in keeping with how a brand wants to
> be seen. If the images are totally decorative (could be swapped out with no
> loss of understanding from the user) then it'll be harder to argue from a
> WCAG perspective.
>
> Away from the guidelines, you're right. People with some cognitive issues
> may wonder what's going on and become distressed. And users who zoom in may
> end up having issues reading the text as the text gets bigger and spills
> over more of the image, which could lead into a failure for colour
> contrast.
>
> If the company are using a CMS, there's one other thing they should
> consider for accessibility. A typical CMS user doesn't understand web
> accessibility, nor does the average marketing professional, so colour
> contrast is very likely to fail over time as users switch the images for
> new ones. The only way around that is to code something like a block
> background colour behind the text, which'll defeat the usual purpose of
> text over images.
>
> I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks?
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Gosia Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following
> scenario:
> >
> > I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background image
> is
> > changing. There are four different decorative images used for the
> > background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There is
> > sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the background image.
> > Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image rotation
> > stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?
> >
> > I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those with
> > low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing will be too
> > confusing and they will not be able to tell if the images bring any value
> > to the website experience or not.
> > Please share your feedback.
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Brown
> Twitter: @kbdevelops
> Skype: kbdevelopment
>
> Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
> University of South Australia, 2015
> > > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, May 23 2017 5:56AM
Subject: Re: Background changing
← Previous message | Next message →

I agree
My understanding of 2.2.2 is that any automation that starts
automatically when the page loads and lasts more than 5 seconds must
be coded so that the user can stop it.


On 5/23/17, Veronika Jermolina < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My take on SC 2.2.2 Pause stop hide is that if there's movement (lasting
> longer than 5 seconds), there must be a mechanism to stop it.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-pause.html
>
> It may sound quite harsh and most carousels would indeed fail this.
>
> However, from experience of observing people use websites with movement,
> this SC is actually based on a real need. People with dyslexia or cognitive
> impairments may not be able to read the text when there is movement on the
> page. I've seen people scroll any moving elements completely out of view
> before they could read it. I would therefore argue that movement on the
> page prevents people from perceiving content, which breaks one of four core
> WCAG 2.0 principles.
>
> So your concerns are valid I would say.
>
> Thanks,
> Vero
>
>
> On 23 May 2017 at 09:01, Karl Brown < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> 2.2.2 <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits-pause> *might *come into
>> play, even though the images are decorative. Because they're changing and
>> give some form of information* I'd certainly want to be able to pause it.
>>
>> I say information*, because it's more in keeping with how a brand wants to
>> be seen. If the images are totally decorative (could be swapped out with
>> no
>> loss of understanding from the user) then it'll be harder to argue from a
>> WCAG perspective.
>>
>> Away from the guidelines, you're right. People with some cognitive issues
>> may wonder what's going on and become distressed. And users who zoom in
>> may
>> end up having issues reading the text as the text gets bigger and spills
>> over more of the image, which could lead into a failure for colour
>> contrast.
>>
>> If the company are using a CMS, there's one other thing they should
>> consider for accessibility. A typical CMS user doesn't understand web
>> accessibility, nor does the average marketing professional, so colour
>> contrast is very likely to fail over time as users switch the images for
>> new ones. The only way around that is to code something like a block
>> background colour behind the text, which'll defeat the usual purpose of
>> text over images.
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks?
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Gosia Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following
>> scenario:
>> >
>> > I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background image
>> is
>> > changing. There are four different decorative images used for the
>> > background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There is
>> > sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the background
>> > image.
>> > Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image rotation
>> > stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?
>> >
>> > I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those with
>> > low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing will be too
>> > confusing and they will not be able to tell if the images bring any
>> > value
>> > to the website experience or not.
>> > Please share your feedback.
>> >
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Brown
>> Twitter: @kbdevelops
>> Skype: kbdevelopment
>>
>> Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
>> University of South Australia, 2015
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: JP Jamous
Date: Tue, May 23 2017 6:46AM
Subject: Re: Background changing
← Previous message | Next message →

I agree as well. Think of this as background audio. The same concept but visual.

I have noticed carousels that would kick the screen reader cursor to different parts of the DOM when it switches ads. I also know from sighted folks that they can be a pain for them. My wife is the first to admit it.

I always suggest to have a pause button for any of those, regardless of what marketing thinks about them. The more I dive into WCAG and evaluate sites the more I realize that the issue is not WCAG or accessibility. It all has to do with user experience.

Who is the site audience?

Do you want to chase potential customers or lure more?

Are you trying to show off that you can code awesome stuff or is your intent to make life difficult for those who could care less about the extra services you have?

Marketing and UX designers overlook those important aspects when designing. WCAG is the best thing that has been implemented to ensure those teams are doing their jobs properly.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:56 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Background changing

I agree
My understanding of 2.2.2 is that any automation that starts automatically when the page loads and lasts more than 5 seconds must be coded so that the user can stop it.


On 5/23/17, Veronika Jermolina < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My take on SC 2.2.2 Pause stop hide is that if there's movement
> (lasting longer than 5 seconds), there must be a mechanism to stop it.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-pause.html
>
> It may sound quite harsh and most carousels would indeed fail this.
>
> However, from experience of observing people use websites with
> movement, this SC is actually based on a real need. People with
> dyslexia or cognitive impairments may not be able to read the text
> when there is movement on the page. I've seen people scroll any moving
> elements completely out of view before they could read it. I would
> therefore argue that movement on the page prevents people from
> perceiving content, which breaks one of four core WCAG 2.0 principles.
>
> So your concerns are valid I would say.
>
> Thanks,
> Vero
>
>
> On 23 May 2017 at 09:01, Karl Brown < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> 2.2.2 <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits-pause> *might *come
>> into play, even though the images are decorative. Because they're
>> changing and give some form of information* I'd certainly want to be able to pause it.
>>
>> I say information*, because it's more in keeping with how a brand
>> wants to be seen. If the images are totally decorative (could be
>> swapped out with no loss of understanding from the user) then it'll
>> be harder to argue from a WCAG perspective.
>>
>> Away from the guidelines, you're right. People with some cognitive
>> issues may wonder what's going on and become distressed. And users
>> who zoom in may end up having issues reading the text as the text
>> gets bigger and spills over more of the image, which could lead into
>> a failure for colour contrast.
>>
>> If the company are using a CMS, there's one other thing they should
>> consider for accessibility. A typical CMS user doesn't understand web
>> accessibility, nor does the average marketing professional, so colour
>> contrast is very likely to fail over time as users switch the images
>> for new ones. The only way around that is to code something like a
>> block background colour behind the text, which'll defeat the usual
>> purpose of text over images.
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks?
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Gosia Wheeler
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following
>> scenario:
>> >
>> > I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background
>> > image
>> is
>> > changing. There are four different decorative images used for the
>> > background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There
>> > is sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the
>> > background image.
>> > Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image
>> > rotation stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?
>> >
>> > I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those
>> > with low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing
>> > will be too confusing and they will not be able to tell if the
>> > images bring any value to the website experience or not.
>> > Please share your feedback.
>> >
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Brown
>> Twitter: @kbdevelops
>> Skype: kbdevelopment
>>
>> Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
>> University of South Australia, 2015
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Chaals is Charles McCathie Nevile
Date: Tue, May 23 2017 6:50AM
Subject: Re: Background changing
← Previous message | No next message

Yep. It should stop, and it should be easy to stop it. Many people who
would not identify as "cognitively disabled" have observable problems
dealing with stuff where the background moves.

If the content is relevant to anything, it should be clear how to move
through the carousel.

As a side note - since I just hit yet another broken site, is the
contrast still OK when the font-size is doubled, as arguably required by
WCAG, or set to 72pt as required by actual people?

cheers

On 23/05/17 11:57, Veronika Jermolina wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My take on SC 2.2.2 Pause stop hide is that if there's movement (lasting
> longer than 5 seconds), there must be a mechanism to stop it.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-pause.html
>
> It may sound quite harsh and most carousels would indeed fail this.
>
> However, from experience of observing people use websites with movement,
> this SC is actually based on a real need. People with dyslexia or cognitive
> impairments may not be able to read the text when there is movement on the
> page. I've seen people scroll any moving elements completely out of view
> before they could read it. I would therefore argue that movement on the
> page prevents people from perceiving content, which breaks one of four core
> WCAG 2.0 principles.
>
> So your concerns are valid I would say.
>
> Thanks,
> Vero
>
>
> On 23 May 2017 at 09:01, Karl Brown < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> 2.2.2 <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits-pause> *might *come into
>> play, even though the images are decorative. Because they're changing and
>> give some form of information* I'd certainly want to be able to pause it.
>>
>> I say information*, because it's more in keeping with how a brand wants to
>> be seen. If the images are totally decorative (could be swapped out with no
>> loss of understanding from the user) then it'll be harder to argue from a
>> WCAG perspective.
>>
>> Away from the guidelines, you're right. People with some cognitive issues
>> may wonder what's going on and become distressed. And users who zoom in may
>> end up having issues reading the text as the text gets bigger and spills
>> over more of the image, which could lead into a failure for colour
>> contrast.
>>
>> If the company are using a CMS, there's one other thing they should
>> consider for accessibility. A typical CMS user doesn't understand web
>> accessibility, nor does the average marketing professional, so colour
>> contrast is very likely to fail over time as users switch the images for
>> new ones. The only way around that is to code something like a block
>> background colour behind the text, which'll defeat the usual purpose of
>> text over images.
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks?
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Gosia Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to hear your accessibility feedback on the following
>> scenario:
>>> I’m testing a desktop website with static text but the background image
>> is
>>> changing. There are four different decorative images used for the
>>> background, shifting from one to the other every 9 seconds. There is
>>> sufficient contrast between the foreground text and the background image.
>>> Do you think it needs a Play/Pause button, or should the image rotation
>>> stop after a certain number of cycles, or maybe it is fine as is?
>>>
>>> I’m concerned that for people with cognitive disabilities and those with
>>> low vision that magnify the screen, the background changing will be too
>>> confusing and they will not be able to tell if the images bring any value
>>> to the website experience or not.
>>> Please share your feedback.
>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Brown
>> Twitter: @kbdevelops
>> Skype: kbdevelopment
>>
>> Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
>> University of South Australia, 2015
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > --
Charles McCathie Nevile - standards - Yandex
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = - Find more at http://yandex.com