WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Thread: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

for

Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: glen walker
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 9:56AM
Subject: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?
No previous message | Next message →

I thought I knew the answer because it seems like I read
https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2 about once a month.

My original thought was that the title attribute is the last kid to get
picked for for the kickball team. Step 2.I says "Otherwise, if the current
node has a Tooltip attribute, return its value. Comment:
Tooltip attributes are used only if nothing else, including subtree
content, has provided results."

However, when I was reading it today, step 2.D says "Otherwise, if the
current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title) or element
(e.g. HTML label) that defines a text alternative, return that
alternative..."

Is the title attribute really considered a "text alternative"? I've never
considered it along the same lines as the alt attribute, but the spec
specifically lists the title attribute as an example of a text alternative.

Should the attribute example in 2.D really be the alt attribute instead of
the title attribute? The comment section for 2.D talks about the <img>
element's alt attribute.

Glen

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 12:13PM
Subject: Re: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible namecomputation?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,
There is an open issue about this for the AccName 1.2 milestone at
https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/10


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

I thought I knew the answer because it seems like I read
https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2 about once a month.

My original thought was that the title attribute is the last kid to get picked for for the kickball team. Step 2.I says "Otherwise, if the current node has a Tooltip attribute, return its value. Comment:
Tooltip attributes are used only if nothing else, including subtree content, has provided results."

However, when I was reading it today, step 2.D says "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title) or element (e.g. HTML label) that defines a text alternative, return that alternative..."

Is the title attribute really considered a "text alternative"? I've never considered it along the same lines as the alt attribute, but the spec specifically lists the title attribute as an example of a text alternative.

Should the attribute example in 2.D really be the alt attribute instead of the title attribute? The comment section for 2.D talks about the <img> element's alt attribute.

Glen

From: Steve Green
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 4:32PM
Subject: Re: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible namecomputation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I have no objection to the title attribute being included in the accessible name calculation as the last resort in the absence of anything else. However, I would set the threshold for WCAG compliance as being higher than that.

The rationale is that including the title attribute in the accessible name calculation will benefit some people, but not enough that it can be considered sufficient.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
Sent: 30 May 2018 19:14
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

Hi,
There is an open issue about this for the AccName 1.2 milestone at
https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/10


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

I thought I knew the answer because it seems like I read
https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2 about once a month.

My original thought was that the title attribute is the last kid to get picked for for the kickball team. Step 2.I says "Otherwise, if the current node has a Tooltip attribute, return its value. Comment:
Tooltip attributes are used only if nothing else, including subtree content, has provided results."

However, when I was reading it today, step 2.D says "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title) or element (e.g. HTML label) that defines a text alternative, return that alternative..."

Is the title attribute really considered a "text alternative"? I've never considered it along the same lines as the alt attribute, but the spec specifically lists the title attribute as an example of a text alternative.

Should the attribute example in 2.D really be the alt attribute instead of the title attribute? The comment section for 2.D talks about the <img> element's alt attribute.

Glen

From: Glen Walker
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 4:42PM
Subject: Re: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible namecomputation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I wasn’t saying it shouldn’t be included. My question was that it was referenced in both step 4 (D) and step 12 (I).

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I have no objection to the title attribute being included in the accessible name calculation as the last resort in the absence of anything else. However, I would set the threshold for WCAG compliance as being higher than that.
>
> The rationale is that including the title attribute in the accessible name calculation will benefit some people, but not enough that it can be considered sufficient.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
> Sent: 30 May 2018 19:14
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?
>
> Hi,
> There is an open issue about this for the AccName 1.2 milestone at
> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/10
>
>
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> Level Access, Inc.
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.LevelAccess.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:57 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?
>
> I thought I knew the answer because it seems like I read
> https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2 about once a month.
>
> My original thought was that the title attribute is the last kid to get picked for for the kickball team. Step 2.I says "Otherwise, if the current node has a Tooltip attribute, return its value. Comment:
> Tooltip attributes are used only if nothing else, including subtree content, has provided results."
>
> However, when I was reading it today, step 2.D says "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title) or element (e.g. HTML label) that defines a text alternative, return that alternative..."
>
> Is the title attribute really considered a "text alternative"? I've never considered it along the same lines as the alt attribute, but the spec specifically lists the title attribute as an example of a text alternative.
>
> Should the attribute example in 2.D really be the alt attribute instead of the title attribute? The comment section for 2.D talks about the <img> element's alt attribute.
>
> Glen
> > > > > > >

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 4:46PM
Subject: Re: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible namecomputation?
← Previous message | Next message →

> The rationale is that including the title attribute in the accessible name calculation will benefit some people, but not enough that it can be considered sufficient.

What is your thinking here Steve? Why would the title as an accessible name not benefit enough people over something else like aria-label? We aren't talking about using it as a visual label or anything else -- just a programmatic name.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 6:33 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

I have no objection to the title attribute being included in the accessible name calculation as the last resort in the absence of anything else. However, I would set the threshold for WCAG compliance as being higher than that.

The rationale is that including the title attribute in the accessible name calculation will benefit some people, but not enough that it can be considered sufficient.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
Sent: 30 May 2018 19:14
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

Hi,
There is an open issue about this for the AccName 1.2 milestone at
https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/10


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?

I thought I knew the answer because it seems like I read
https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2 about once a month.

My original thought was that the title attribute is the last kid to get picked for for the kickball team. Step 2.I says "Otherwise, if the current node has a Tooltip attribute, return its value. Comment:
Tooltip attributes are used only if nothing else, including subtree content, has provided results."

However, when I was reading it today, step 2.D says "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title) or element (e.g. HTML label) that defines a text alternative, return that alternative..."

Is the title attribute really considered a "text alternative"? I've never considered it along the same lines as the alt attribute, but the spec specifically lists the title attribute as an example of a text alternative.

Should the attribute example in 2.D really be the alt attribute instead of the title attribute? The comment section for 2.D talks about the <img> element's alt attribute.

Glen

From: glen walker
Date: Wed, May 30 2018 4:48PM
Subject: Re: when is the "title" attribute used in the accessible name computation?
← Previous message | No next message

I wasn’t saying it shouldn’t be included. My question was that it was
referenced in both step 4 (D) and step 12 (I).

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:

> I have no objection to the title attribute being included in the
> accessible name calculation as the last resort in the absence of anything
> else. However, I would set the threshold for WCAG compliance as being
> higher than that.
>
> The rationale is that including the title attribute in the accessible name
> calculation will benefit some people, but not enough that it can be
> considered sufficient.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>