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From: Cindy Duggan
Date: Thu, Nov 07 2019 12:44PM
Subject: Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering
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Hello -

Curious as how folks handle the following situation:

We are getting ready to create / move our policies to a Policy Management
solution where all of our policies are web pages vs the older pdf's (one
can download a current watermarked pdf for themselves, if desired).
Content is entered via a WYSIWYG editor similar to those in content and
learning management systems. Editing via the editor is restricted to make
it difficult for users to enter in-accessible content.

We are starting from a MS Word template, where we're inclined to keep
outline numbering for the actual Policy as part of the Major Headers, such
as below. (our TOC):

Policy Title (H1)
Policy Statement (H2)
Who Should Read the Policy (H2)
Links and Resources (H2)
Terms and Definitions (H2)
The Policy (H2)
I. Integrity (H3)
II. Violations and Sanctions (H3)
A. Definitions of Integrity Violations (H4)
B. Levels of Violations (H4)
C. Sanctions (H4)
III. Appealing Violations of Integrity (H3)
A. Appealing Warnings, etc (H4)
B. Ability to Add, Drop, or Withdraw During Violation Process (H4)
Contacts (H2)

Is it appropriate, in terms of accessibility, to "type-in" the policy
outline numbering as part of out Header Structure?

There are typically paragraphs of text and other typical list structures
within each of the higher "numbered" headers.

What is proper way to handle this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Much appreciated,
Cindy


*-----------------------*

Cindy Duggan, Ph.D., P.E.

*Director of Web ApplicationsInformation Technology Services*
[image: Manhattan College Logo/Shield]
Riverdale, NY 10471
Phone: 718-862-7413
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.manhattan.edu

From: glen walker
Date: Thu, Nov 07 2019 3:08PM
Subject: Re: Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering
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If your Word template is using heading styles, then the level of the
heading will be announced correctly by screen readers so the H1, H2 info in
parens would not be necessary.

For sighted users, the outline numbering in front of the heading should
should be sufficient to convey what level they're on (although your H1 and
H2 don't have outline numbers).

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Thu, Nov 07 2019 3:42PM
Subject: Re: Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering
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Yes, I think it is appropriate to type in the policy roman numerals and
capital letters in front of those H3 and H4 levels instead of nesting
all that content into a single large nested list with customized
automatic list numbers. But my impression is that this is a bit of a
judgement call based on the amount of text that you are trying to
insert? And possibly also depending on how you use such headings or
lists elsewhere on your site?

I have created very long single-page documents with multiple nested
levels where almost the entire page is a single list with custom
numbering labels, and while I created such pages in an attempt to follow
strict HTML semantics, I'm not convinced that such pages are actually
any easier for users. My impression is that some assistive technology
users are better able to traverse nested list levels more easily than
others? Headings, by contrast, are pretty well understood and pretty
easily traversed by all.

But I have only anecdotal evidence on all that and would welcome
suggestions from someone with more experience/knowledge of the best
practices/rules and of AT users.

Phil.

On 2019-11-07 14:44, Cindy Duggan wrote:
> Hello -
>
> Curious as how folks handle the following situation:
>
> We are getting ready to create / move our policies to a Policy Management
> solution where all of our policies are web pages vs the older pdf's (one
> can download a current watermarked pdf for themselves, if desired).
> Content is entered via a WYSIWYG editor similar to those in content and
> learning management systems. Editing via the editor is restricted to make
> it difficult for users to enter in-accessible content.
>
> We are starting from a MS Word template, where we're inclined to keep
> outline numbering for the actual Policy as part of the Major Headers, such
> as below. (our TOC):
>
> Policy Title (H1)
> Policy Statement (H2)
> Who Should Read the Policy (H2)
> Links and Resources (H2)
> Terms and Definitions (H2)
> The Policy (H2)
> I. Integrity (H3)
> II. Violations and Sanctions (H3)
> A. Definitions of Integrity Violations (H4)
> B. Levels of Violations (H4)
> C. Sanctions (H4)
> III. Appealing Violations of Integrity (H3)
> A. Appealing Warnings, etc (H4)
> B. Ability to Add, Drop, or Withdraw During Violation Process (H4)
> Contacts (H2)
>
> Is it appropriate, in terms of accessibility, to "type-in" the policy
> outline numbering as part of out Header Structure?
>
> There are typically paragraphs of text and other typical list structures
> within each of the higher "numbered" headers.
>
> What is proper way to handle this?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Much appreciated,
> Cindy
>
>
> *-----------------------*
>
> Cindy Duggan, Ph.D., P.E.
>
> *Director of Web ApplicationsInformation Technology Services*
> [image: Manhattan College Logo/Shield]
> Riverdale, NY 10471
> Phone: 718-862-7413
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> www.manhattan.edu
> > > >

From: Mark Magennis
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 2:36AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering
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HI Cindy,

Do you mean the I. II. III. A. B. C. outline numbering? If so, then I don't see a problem keeping that. In fact, you should keep it because it's information that may be used to refer to a particular section or subsection.

Mark

Mark Magennis
Skillsoft | mobile: +353 87 60 60 162
Accessibility Specialist


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Cindy Duggan
Sent: 07 November 2019 19:44
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [WebAIM] Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering

Hello -

Curious as how folks handle the following situation:

We are getting ready to create / move our policies to a Policy Management solution where all of our policies are web pages vs the older pdf's (one can download a current watermarked pdf for themselves, if desired).
Content is entered via a WYSIWYG editor similar to those in content and learning management systems. Editing via the editor is restricted to make it difficult for users to enter in-accessible content.

We are starting from a MS Word template, where we're inclined to keep outline numbering for the actual Policy as part of the Major Headers, such as below. (our TOC):

Policy Title (H1)
Policy Statement (H2)
Who Should Read the Policy (H2)
Links and Resources (H2)
Terms and Definitions (H2)
The Policy (H2)
I. Integrity (H3)
II. Violations and Sanctions (H3)
A. Definitions of Integrity Violations (H4)
B. Levels of Violations (H4)
C. Sanctions (H4)
III. Appealing Violations of Integrity (H3)
A. Appealing Warnings, etc (H4)
B. Ability to Add, Drop, or Withdraw During Violation Process (H4) Contacts (H2)

Is it appropriate, in terms of accessibility, to "type-in" the policy outline numbering as part of out Header Structure?

There are typically paragraphs of text and other typical list structures within each of the higher "numbered" headers.

What is proper way to handle this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Much appreciated,
Cindy


*-----------------------*

Cindy Duggan, Ph.D., P.E.

*Director of Web ApplicationsInformation Technology Services*
[image: Manhattan College Logo/Shield]
Riverdale, NY 10471
Phone: 718-862-7413
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.manhattan.edu

From: Cindy Duggan
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 10:59AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major Numbering
← Previous message | No next message

Hi All -

Clarification: Yes, the I. II. III. A. B. C. outline numbering (typed in as
part of the HTML Headings). I'm sure that some would refer to those as
"Fake Lists", but these are rather just a way to structure the overall
policy content (if even somewhat visually)

Been wrestling with nesting all the content into a single large nested list
with customized automatic list numbers; Philip nicely communicated the
dilemma. Users really aren't writing their policies is that very strict
nested format (there are always some additional paragraphs thrown in), so
very difficult and unwieldy to work this as a single list. The Headings
(with typed-in outline numbering) are just so much simpler to use and seem
to chunk the content up pretty nicely, so I'm inclined to just do this.

Bit hate to implement college-wide by building this into our templates, and
then find out that this is not the proper (accessible) way to handle this
today.

Thanks.
Cindy



*-----------------------*

Cindy Duggan, Ph.D., P.E.

*Director of Web ApplicationsInformation Technology Services*
[image: Manhattan College Logo/Shield]
Riverdale, NY 10471
Phone: 718-862-7413
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.manhattan.edu


On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 4:36 AM Mark Magennis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> HI Cindy,
>
> Do you mean the I. II. III. A. B. C. outline numbering? If so, then I
> don't see a problem keeping that. In fact, you should keep it because it's
> information that may be used to refer to a particular section or subsection.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Magennis
> Skillsoft | mobile: +353 87 60 60 162
> Accessibility Specialist
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Cindy Duggan
> Sent: 07 November 2019 19:44
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [WebAIM] Headers Containing Outline Structure / Major
> Numbering
>
> Hello -
>
> Curious as how folks handle the following situation:
>
> We are getting ready to create / move our policies to a Policy Management
> solution where all of our policies are web pages vs the older pdf's (one
> can download a current watermarked pdf for themselves, if desired).
> Content is entered via a WYSIWYG editor similar to those in content and
> learning management systems. Editing via the editor is restricted to make
> it difficult for users to enter in-accessible content.
>
> We are starting from a MS Word template, where we're inclined to keep
> outline numbering for the actual Policy as part of the Major Headers, such
> as below. (our TOC):
>
> Policy Title (H1)
> Policy Statement (H2)
> Who Should Read the Policy (H2)
> Links and Resources (H2)
> Terms and Definitions (H2)
> The Policy (H2)
> I. Integrity (H3)
> II. Violations and Sanctions (H3)
> A. Definitions of Integrity Violations (H4)
> B. Levels of Violations (H4)
> C. Sanctions (H4)
> III. Appealing Violations of Integrity (H3)
> A. Appealing Warnings, etc (H4)
> B. Ability to Add, Drop, or Withdraw During Violation Process
> (H4) Contacts (H2)
>
> Is it appropriate, in terms of accessibility, to "type-in" the policy
> outline numbering as part of out Header Structure?
>
> There are typically paragraphs of text and other typical list structures
> within each of the higher "numbered" headers.
>
> What is proper way to handle this?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Much appreciated,
> Cindy
>
>
> *-----------------------*
>
> Cindy Duggan, Ph.D., P.E.
>
> *Director of Web ApplicationsInformation Technology Services*
> [image: Manhattan College Logo/Shield]
> Riverdale, NY 10471
> Phone: 718-862-7413
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> www.manhattan.edu
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >