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Thread: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Mon, May 04 2020 5:16PM
Subject: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
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Is it inappropriate to use an icon+alt text as a <lbl> in a <list> structure? Will the major screen readers (jaws, nvda, voiceover) read the alt text as the label for each list item?
The icons (with their alt texts) are the only on-screen elements that will truly and intuitively serve as labels in the PDF in question.
Thanks,
Alan
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Wed, May 06 2020 7:33AM
Subject: Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
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Yes, I think it is appropriate in some cases to use an icon as a Label
(Lbl) for list items in a PDF tag tree. The List structure in PDFs I
think allows for such use of L (List) elements. And if an Lbl is not
text, then there is no reason it cannot be an image. As far as I know,
both NVDA and Jaws will read alternative text applied to Lbl tags in
place of whatever content is inside the Label.
It is not entirely clear to me whether one should ALSO wrap such icons
inside a Figure tag and then nest the Figure inside the Lbl (Label) tag.
I have run into problems sometimes with Figures inside Labels, so I
would be inclined to use ONLY the Lbl tag and NOT include a nested
Figure tag as well.
Note that I cannot speak as any kind of "authority" on questions of
appropriate vs inappropriate use of tags in PDFs. However, as is perhaps
evident by my previous posts, in the absence of other responses, I am
usually comfortable passing on my current opinions to the list!
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
On 2020-05-04 19:16, Alan Zaitchik wrote:
> Is it inappropriate to use an icon+alt text as a <lbl> in a <list> structure? Will the major screen readers (jaws, nvda, voiceover) read the alt text as the label for each list item?
> The icons (with their alt texts) are the only on-screen elements that will truly and intuitively serve as labels in the PDF in question.
> Thanks,
> Alan
From: Paul Rayius
Date: Wed, May 06 2020 7:59AM
Subject: Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
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Phil is right that you can use an icon for the label (Lbl) in a list. As per PDF/UA-1, graphical elements that convey information (in this case, the list labels) need to be placed in Figure tags. So, you'd put the icon in a Figure tag (with the necessary Alt text - maybe "bullet"), and the Figure tag would be nested in a Lbl tag. (The Lbl would not get Alt text.)
In PDF/UA-2 (not released/supported yet) this would change and you wouldn't need to use the Figure tag for PDF/UA-2 compliant documents. But that's coming in the future, not what's implemented or supported now.
I hope that helps clarify things a little bit.
Paul Rayius
Director of Training
CommonLook
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 9:34 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
Yes, I think it is appropriate in some cases to use an icon as a Label
(Lbl) for list items in a PDF tag tree. The List structure in PDFs I think allows for such use of L (List) elements. And if an Lbl is not text, then there is no reason it cannot be an image. As far as I know, both NVDA and Jaws will read alternative text applied to Lbl tags in place of whatever content is inside the Label.
It is not entirely clear to me whether one should ALSO wrap such icons inside a Figure tag and then nest the Figure inside the Lbl (Label) tag.
I have run into problems sometimes with Figures inside Labels, so I would be inclined to use ONLY the Lbl tag and NOT include a nested Figure tag as well.
Note that I cannot speak as any kind of "authority" on questions of appropriate vs inappropriate use of tags in PDFs. However, as is perhaps evident by my previous posts, in the absence of other responses, I am usually comfortable passing on my current opinions to the list!
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
On 2020-05-04 19:16, Alan Zaitchik wrote:
> Is it inappropriate to use an icon+alt text as a <lbl> in a <list> structure? Will the major screen readers (jaws, nvda, voiceover) read the alt text as the label for each list item?
> The icons (with their alt texts) are the only on-screen elements that will truly and intuitively serve as labels in the PDF in question.
> Thanks,
> Alan
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, May 08 2020 6:40AM
Subject: Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list)
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That's a helpful clarification, Paul. Thanks!
On 2020-05-06 09:59, Paul Rayius wrote:
> [...] As per PDF/UA-1, graphical elements that convey information (in this case, the list labels) need to be placed in Figure tags. So, you'd put the icon in a Figure tag (with the necessary Alt text - maybe "bullet"), and the Figure tag would be nested in a Lbl tag. (The Lbl would not get Alt text.)
>
> In PDF/UA-2 (not released/supported yet) this would change and you wouldn't need to use the Figure tag for PDF/UA-2 compliant documents. But that's coming in the future, not what's implemented or supported now.
From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Sat, May 09 2020 10:25PM
Subject: Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list) (Philip Kiff)
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Thanks, Philip and Paul. I'll test out using the various screen readers we are required to support, whether they fare well with a Figure wrapping the icon. I'll post the results here.
Alan
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Non-dynamic alerts in web page (Murphy, Sean)
> 2. Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list) (Philip Kiff)
> 3. Re: Using icon+alt text as lbl ( in PDF list) (Paul Rayius)
> 4. required or aria required usage (Farough, David (CFP/PSC))
> 5. Re: [External Sender] required or aria required usage
> (Brian Lovely)
> 6. Re: required or aria required usage (Jared Smith)
> 7. Automated testing tools and viewport size (Steve Green)
> 8. Voice Control Software (Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC))
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