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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Tyler Shepard
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 10:02AM
Subject: remote desktop program question with screen reader
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Hi all,
If I use either NVDA or JAWS while navigating a computer and I need to open a program that is remote on another computer will my local screen reader read what is on the local remote computer?
If not, what fixes should i.t implement?
I hope to hear from you soon.

Yours sincerly,
Tyler Shepard

From: Weston Thayer
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 11:24AM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
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Hi Tyler,

No, unfortunately remote desktop protocols like RDP and VNC do not transmit
accessibility API calls. For example, if you are on a Windows PC running
Narrator and use the built-in Remote Desktop app to connect to another
Windows PC, Narrator will communicate the remote connection as a "window"
with input capture, but nothing about its contents. This is also true if
attempting to use RDP from a Mac to connect to a PC, VoiceOver only knows
about the window containing the remote connection.

This isn't something an individual application can fix. There are a few
options to try though:

1. Start a screen reader on the remote machine and turn off your
local screen reader. Since all of your keyboard and mouse input is being
sent to the remote machine, and the remote machine's audio is being sent
back, this generally works, but lag or latency can be a major annoyance. It
should be possible to set up physical ATs connected via USB with the remote
computer as well via USB forwarding
2. Use a screen reader native remote protocol. For example NVDA has
https://nvdaremote.com/. Your local copy of NVDA can connect to a copy
of NVDA running on the remote computer, and forward commands and speech
output. I believe JAWS has a similar offering. There shouldn't be much lag
at all here, but it does require that the remote machine is pre-configured
with NVDA
3. Microsoft Remote Desktop services do have a feature called RemoteApp
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Services#RemoteApp>, where
a single remote application acts like a normal application window. This
would only work in the PC-to-PC case, and I've never tested it, but there's
a small chance the accessibility APIs would work (I doubt it though, since
RDP does not support them)

I think this is an area that deserves focus and innovation. I'd love to see
more AT-native remote protocols like in option 2, maybe even cross-OS
protocols, so that VoiceOver could remotely connect to Narrator, etc.

Best,
Weston

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:11 AM Tyler Shepard < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hi all,
> If I use either NVDA or JAWS while navigating a computer and I need to
> open a program that is remote on another computer will my local screen
> reader read what is on the local remote computer?
> If not, what fixes should i.t implement?
> I hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Yours sincerly,
> Tyler Shepard
> > > > >

From: Jeffrey (JDS)
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 3:01PM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
← Previous message | Next message →

Serotek used to have a remote access option too ... called remote
incident... that was cross screen reader...
It worked rather well.
I've used it or system access to support JAWS users and NVDA users.

From: Weston Thayer
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:02PM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks for sharing that Jeffrey, I wasn't aware of it. I think this is
the whitepaper
for Serotek Remote Incident Manager
<http://www.serotek.com/rim-whitepaper.html>;. Pretty neat! If I'm
understanding correctly, it works by running Serotek's own screen reader,
System Access, in the event no screen reader is running on the remote
computer. If a different screen reader is running (they cite JAWS and NVDA
as examples), they relay the speech output to the client (unclear if
they're sending the full audio channel over the wire or scraping the speech
synthesizer and having System Access on the client read it). So if NVDA was
running, you'd have to switch to NVDA keyboard shortcuts to use it.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 2:01 PM Jeffrey (JDS) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Serotek used to have a remote access option too ... called remote
> incident... that was cross screen reader...
> It worked rather well.
> I've used it or system access to support JAWS users and NVDA users.
>
>

From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:38PM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
← Previous message | Next message →

Also I have encountered problems with some key mappings trying to use a remote PC or a Virtual PC environment running JAWS, while I am using my MAC keyboard.
This was a few years ago so maybe things have improved.
A

> On Aug 28, 2020, at 13:24, Weston Thayer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi Tyler,
>
> No, unfortunately remote desktop protocols like RDP and VNC do not transmit
> accessibility API calls. For example, if you are on a Windows PC running
> Narrator and use the built-in Remote Desktop app to connect to another
> Windows PC, Narrator will communicate the remote connection as a "window"
> with input capture, but nothing about its contents. This is also true if
> attempting to use RDP from a Mac to connect to a PC, VoiceOver only knows
> about the window containing the remote connection.
>
> This isn't something an individual application can fix. There are a few
> options to try though:
>
> 1. Start a screen reader on the remote machine and turn off your
> local screen reader. Since all of your keyboard and mouse input is being
> sent to the remote machine, and the remote machine's audio is being sent
> back, this generally works, but lag or latency can be a major annoyance. It
> should be possible to set up physical ATs connected via USB with the remote
> computer as well via USB forwarding
> 2. Use a screen reader native remote protocol. For example NVDA has
> https://nvdaremote.com/. Your local copy of NVDA can connect to a copy
> of NVDA running on the remote computer, and forward commands and speech
> output. I believe JAWS has a similar offering. There shouldn't be much lag
> at all here, but it does require that the remote machine is pre-configured
> with NVDA
> 3. Microsoft Remote Desktop services do have a feature called RemoteApp
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Services#RemoteApp>, where
> a single remote application acts like a normal application window. This
> would only work in the PC-to-PC case, and I've never tested it, but there's
> a small chance the accessibility APIs would work (I doubt it though, since
> RDP does not support them)
>
> I think this is an area that deserves focus and innovation. I'd love to see
> more AT-native remote protocols like in option 2, maybe even cross-OS
> protocols, so that VoiceOver could remotely connect to Narrator, etc.
>
> Best,
> Weston
>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:11 AM Tyler Shepard < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> If I use either NVDA or JAWS while navigating a computer and I need to
>> open a program that is remote on another computer will my local screen
>> reader read what is on the local remote computer?
>> If not, what fixes should i.t implement?
>> I hope to hear from you soon.
>>
>> Yours sincerly,
>> Tyler Shepard
>> >> >> >> >>
>

From: Weston Thayer
Date: Fri, Aug 28 2020 4:57PM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
← Previous message | Next message →

Ah yes, watch out for the Mac to PC scenario. If you have a full sized Mac
keyboard with an INSERT key and you're using the official Microsoft Remote
Desktop client, you should be ok, but if you use CAPS LOCK as the modifier
key, it won't work.

This is because of a API design decision Apple made — they don't treat CAPS
LOCK like a normal key, it's more of a mode, in that it can only be on or
off. There's no notion of it being "pressed", or even keydown/keyup events.
To deal with this, most remote desktop software will send a CAPS LOCK
keydown immediately followed by a keyup when it detects that the caps lock
mode has changed. This of course doesn't work so well with NVDA, Narrator,
or JAWS, which expect it to be held down. You'll need to remap to a
different key, for which installing sharpkeys
<https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys> on the remote PC can be handy.

If you don't use the official Microsoft Remote Desktop RDP viewer, be aware
that some remote viewers take a different input approach, leaving even more
keyboard shortcuts broken. For example, on a Mac with en-US keyboard
layout, CTRL+OPTION/ALT+N (normally used to start NVDA) sends a dead key
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_key> for the accent above an "ñ". If
other keyboard shortcuts aren't working, that's probably why.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:38 PM Alan Zaitchik < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Also I have encountered problems with some key mappings trying to use a
> remote PC or a Virtual PC environment running JAWS, while I am using my MAC
> keyboard.
> This was a few years ago so maybe things have improved.
> A
>
> > On Aug 28, 2020, at 13:24, Weston Thayer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tyler,
> >
> > No, unfortunately remote desktop protocols like RDP and VNC do not
> transmit
> > accessibility API calls. For example, if you are on a Windows PC running
> > Narrator and use the built-in Remote Desktop app to connect to another
> > Windows PC, Narrator will communicate the remote connection as a "window"
> > with input capture, but nothing about its contents. This is also true if
> > attempting to use RDP from a Mac to connect to a PC, VoiceOver only knows
> > about the window containing the remote connection.
> >
> > This isn't something an individual application can fix. There are a few
> > options to try though:
> >
> > 1. Start a screen reader on the remote machine and turn off your
> > local screen reader. Since all of your keyboard and mouse input is
> being
> > sent to the remote machine, and the remote machine's audio is being
> sent
> > back, this generally works, but lag or latency can be a major
> annoyance. It
> > should be possible to set up physical ATs connected via USB with the
> remote
> > computer as well via USB forwarding
> > 2. Use a screen reader native remote protocol. For example NVDA has
> > https://nvdaremote.com/. Your local copy of NVDA can connect to a copy
> > of NVDA running on the remote computer, and forward commands and speech
> > output. I believe JAWS has a similar offering. There shouldn't be much
> lag
> > at all here, but it does require that the remote machine is
> pre-configured
> > with NVDA
> > 3. Microsoft Remote Desktop services do have a feature called RemoteApp
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Services#RemoteApp>,
> where
> > a single remote application acts like a normal application window. This
> > would only work in the PC-to-PC case, and I've never tested it, but
> there's
> > a small chance the accessibility APIs would work (I doubt it though,
> since
> > RDP does not support them)
> >
> > I think this is an area that deserves focus and innovation. I'd love to
> see
> > more AT-native remote protocols like in option 2, maybe even cross-OS
> > protocols, so that VoiceOver could remotely connect to Narrator, etc.
> >
> > Best,
> > Weston
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:11 AM Tyler Shepard <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >> If I use either NVDA or JAWS while navigating a computer and I need to
> >> open a program that is remote on another computer will my local screen
> >> reader read what is on the local remote computer?
> >> If not, what fixes should i.t implement?
> >> I hope to hear from you soon.
> >>
> >> Yours sincerly,
> >> Tyler Shepard
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >
>

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Mon, Aug 31 2020 7:47AM
Subject: Re: remote desktop program question with screen reader
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Hello,
This would be better answered on a JAWS or NVDA mailing list. Essentially, JAWS and NVDA have remote modes, in NVDA you need to add the NVDA Remote addon which might cost some money. In JAWS there is a remote feature that requires an license. In both cases, the screen reader is running on both sides of the connection, and the local copy runs the speech while the remote copy interprets the screen.
Jonathan

> On Aug 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Tyler Shepard < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> If I use either NVDA or JAWS while navigating a computer and I need to open a program that is remote on another computer will my local screen reader read what is on the local remote computer?
> If not, what fixes should i.t implement?
> I hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Yours sincerly,
> Tyler Shepard
> > > >