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Re: abbreviations

for

From: Geof Collis
Date: May 26, 2010 3:00PM


Hi Dennis

I'm not sure where I read it but that is also the method I have
adopted because of it.

I also have to wonder how using it will help someone who cant use a mouse.

cheers

Geof

At 03:51 PM 5/26/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Geoff,
>
>Perfect. Exactly what I hoped. Thanks.
>
>It means that Jaws will NOT support the @title in <abbr> and <acronym>.
>
>That makes it an absolutely irrelevant solution to describe
>abbreviations or acronyms (from my perspective of course).
>
>I stand with what I was saying earlier: explain what the acronym or
>abbreviation means on it's first occurence in the page (other than
>navigation or headings, for obvious reasons) by presenting it
>explicitely first, then give out it's acronym or abbreviation in
>parenthesis. Seems like the best option to me, a win-win situation
>for everyone.
>
>--
>Denis Boudreau
>www.twitter.com/dboudreau
>
>
>
>
>On 2010-05-26, at 2:23 PM, Geof Collis wrote:
>
> > Hi Dennis
> >
> > It would appear that by default my version of JAWS 10.0 has the
> > abbreviation and acronym turned off and that's just the way I like it.
> >
> > I tested your examples and got NATO and Mon.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Geof
> > At 01:52 PM 5/26/2010, you wrote:
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> Like Geoff, I never use the <abbr> or <acronym> tags. Never been a
> >> great fan. I always preferred defining the first occurence of the
> >> abbreviation or acronym in content instead.
> >>
> >> Geof, were you implying that Jaws will read the content of the
> >> <abbr> or <acronym> element if it's defined by the @title? What
> >> weould Jaws read if it stumbled across:
> >>
> >> <acronym title="North Atlantic Treaty Organisation ">NATO</acronym>
> >> <abbr title="Monday">Mon</abbr>
> >>
> >> My understanding has always been that by default, Jaws would not
> >> read the @title attribute on anything but <img>, <area>, <input> or
> >> <frame>. Can it read it on <acronym> or <abbr> too?
> >>
> >> Besides that, Ben Meadowcroft had an interesting article on the
> >> subject a couple of years ago that sums up really well how I feel
> >> about using <abbr> and <acronym>:
> >> <http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/articles/abbr-vs-acronym.shtml>;.
> >>
> >> Part of my dislike for those tags also goes back to a few years ago,
> >> when one or the other wasn't properly supported in MSIE (can't
> >> remember which one if was or what the support problem was). Now,
> >> part of this may be based on misunderstandiong from my part, but
> >> both tags have always felt broken to me for a few reasons:
> >>
> >> the differences in interpretation between most dictionnairies and
> >> what the W3C defines
> >> the inconsistent use of both terms in the HTML spec (the W3C mixes
> >> both terms in the standard)
> >> the lack of device independancy (in this case, the mouse) and won't
> >> be usable with the keyboard only
> >> it's not visible to sighted users unless their mouse hovers over
> the content
> >> etc.
> >>
> >> I'd much rather explain what the acronym or abbreviation means on
> >> it's first occurence in the page (other than navigation or headings,
> >> for obvious reasons) by presenting it explicitely first, then give
> >> out it's acronym or abbreviation in parenthesis. A side practice
> >> would be to do the exact opposite, but always on the first occurence
> >> (still, excluding headings or navigation). Examples :
> >>
> >> blah blah blah NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation) blah blah blah
> >> blah blah blah North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) blah blah blah
> >>
> >> Other possibilities could include refering to footnotes on the same
> >> web page, or using a glossary on the website for example. As
> >> imperfect as these two options may be, both are more interesting to
> >> me than relying on the <abbr> or <acronym> tag.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Denis Boudreau
> >> www.twitter.com/dboudreau
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2010-05-26, at 11:16 AM, Geof Collis wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Dan
> >>>
> >>> Personally I dont use <abbr> tags, I always expand the abbreviation
> >>> or acronym the first instance on a page and I have JAWS set to ignore
> >>> them. I just dont consider it that important but I'm willing to
> >>> listen to counter arguments.
> >>>
> >>> cheers
> >>>
> >>> Geof
> >>>
> >>> At 11:02 AM 5/26/2010, you wrote:
> >>>> Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam already.
> >>>>
> >>>> I know Jared has said in the past that WebAIM has shifted away from
> >>>> abbreviating from abbreviating common terms like HTML. I've considered
> >>>> this -- I expand things like PDF and etc, which probably do more harm
> >>>> than good -- but haven't actually changed anything yet, as our grant is
> >>>> nearly up and I plan on doing a site revamp if/when we're refunded.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm being forced to confront the issue now, though, as I'm formatting a
> >>>> long article on HIV/AIDS, and I think having the text 'Human
> >>>> Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome' repeated at
> >>>> least once a paragraph would get wordy (and confusing) very quickly.
> >>>>
> >>>> So: is this something I should just let slide without a tag? Should I
> >>>> give them plain <abbr> tags? I don't know how screen readers would
> >>>> approach it, or if people are used to hearing 'hiv' pronounced and can
> >>>> auto-correct it in their head.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Dan Conley
> >>>> Information Specialist
> >>>> Center for International Rehabilitation Research Information and
> >>>> Exchange (CIRRIE)
> >>>> University at Buffalo, Health Sciences Library B6
> >>>> Phone: (716) 829-5728
> >>>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>> http://cirrie.buffalo.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>