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Re: Links opening in new windows

for

From: Karl Groves
Date: Aug 5, 2014 12:57PM

Greg,

It depends on the use case. As Jared mentioned, there are likely to be
use cases, like Gmail, where the notifications would not only be
burdensome but unnecessary.

In other cases, it'd be very helpful.

One thing to keep in mind when providing such notifications is that
you should try to avoid being too verbose. For instance, your notice
says "This link opens in a new window". Imagine, for a moment, that
you had to listen to that. What are the *most* important words in
that phrase? IMO they're "opens new window".

This is obviously an area of high subjectivity. Some people might
argue that any kind of warning is unnecessary and they'd prefer not to
have it at all.

On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Greg Gamble < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Thanks Karl
>
> What if they were notified? Would that be acceptable?
>
> For example, the links here have a hidden span tag that shows on hover :
> https://gedverify.org/contact.aspx
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 11:05 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>
> Greg,
>
> It might be worthwhile to search the archives a bit. I recall (possibly several years ago) posting some observations I made during usability studies. The short version is that the way the window/ tab opens is very important. In usability studies it is very common for participants to not notice the new window/ tab. The side effect being the exact opposite of what people intend. Site owners often say "we want the new window so users don't lose our site" and yet the exact opposite tends to happen.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Greg Gamble < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> Does it matter if the link is opening a new window for a site outside
>> the framework of the current site?
>>
>> For instance, if a user clicks a link and is taken to a site not tied
>> to the one that the user is currently at, as compared to one that is
>> related to the current site ... like a subdomain.
>>
>> Is a new window expected for one and the other not?
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 10:25 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>>
>> There were a couple of different perspectives offered in the WCAG
>> working group thread. It is worth noting that not everyone on that
>> thread is a member of the working group, but even if you constrain the
>> comments to people who are current members in good standing you'll
>> find differences of opinion.
>>
>> Karl submitted the question to the working group via the group's
>> comment email address (thank you), so the group will be discussing the
>> question and will be able to offer its view on the subject.
>>
>> I'm sure that response will be shared here.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 10:49 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>>
>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>
>> > Do you think 3.2.2 includes links?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> 3.2.2 is titled "On Input...". Links do not take input. It would,
>> however, be a 3.2.2 failure if the user is typing in a text box or
>> changes a select menu, for example, and a new window opens that they
>> have not been previously informed of.
>>
>> > Do you think the warning(s) must be provided, as is the case in G201?
>>
>> Yes, but only if you're talking about input or focus.
>>
>> The example in G201 is incorrect. It uses a link with target="_blank"
>> as an example, but it's already been made clear that activating a link
>> is not "Input" or "Focus". G201 (which is an Advisory Technique, not a
>> Sufficient Technique) provides a technique for something that is not
>> even covered by the success criteria it is associated to! This would
>> be like having a technique for color contrast associated to the
>> success criteria for alternative text, except that color contrast is
>> at least covered elsewhere in WCAG. A requirement that users be
>> informed that links open in new windows is not.
>>
>> Clearly several in the WCAG working group thread you posted seemed to
>> want to contort and reinterpret a success criterion (ANY success
>> criterion for that matter) to somehow force this in as a new failure.
>>
>> Opening new windows is also not covered by 3.2.5. The other techniques
>> you list (H83, SCR24, and G200) are quite a stretch in their
>> applicability to this success criteria. 3.2.5 says that you can't
>> cause a change of context that is not user initiated. Opening a new
>> window at a random point in time would be a failure, but clicking a
>> link is an explicit user request for a change of context and would not be, even if it opens a new window.
>>
>> In reality, links that open in new windows without previous
>> notification can be confusing... but for everyone. It is a usability
>> issue, but it's not something addressed by WCAG (well, at least the
>> normative part, not counting these advisory techniques for which there
>> is no proper success criteria).
>>
>> I can argue that there are situations where informing users that links
>> open in new windows could make an interface LESS usable and
>> accessible. It would be burdensome and unnecessary to indicate that
>> all links open in new windows in Gmail, for example, where all links
>> in messages do so consistently.
>>
>> Jared
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>
> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>
> www.tenon.io
> > > > > --

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks

www.tenon.io