WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: Untagged PDF doc with table structure

for

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Feb 19, 2015 6:48PM

>Which makes 20. There are a number of inline styles that aren't
supported (e.g. code, quote) and there may be others that are supported
that I'm not sure of (e.g. TOC).
>I think that the situation is a little better than you are characterizing.

I haven't dug around in the new docs, but the old documents said, to
quickly know what tags INDD will reliably carry over to a PDF is to run the
untagged items via the structure pane. This gives you
P
H
H1-H6
Article
Artifact
Root/Document

Other things like tables and lists were kind of a flip of a coin. I noticed
better support for lists in CS6, but this is akin to "don't worry about it,
just trust us." However, I will mention that if you click the list icon, it
will be brought over as a list. You cannot do this with headings from what
I can tell, and didn't touch tables. Working with graphic artists, they are
less likely to do this, because 1- their formal training didn't cover this
- not Adobe's fault. 2- they only have a few days to do a job, so setting
up stuff on every project is beyond a chore.

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Ryan,
> Comments below.
>
> I was trying to cut out the jargon. Most people do not know there are
> styles and tags within inDesign, in my experience. If they just make a
> style, and lazily name it h1, that gets exported and mapped to P - in the
> two sample files I tried - in CS6. The user has 3 options. 1- properly
> named styles. 2- Open up the style, choose the right tag via export tag
> options. 3- open the tags pane, use the map styles to tags option, and map
> it. This assumes the user opened up the structure pane, and used the "add
> untagged items" option. This also creates the known tags to inDesign -
> which is 9.
>
> > InDesign supports a a lot of standard PDF tags.
> 9 of 34 is 26%. Not sure if you call that a lot. Now if a user sets up
> their document properly, and use the built in features, of course that goes
> up. In my experience, working with designers, who have a degree, and
> trained inDesign, don't do or know this.
>
> Off hand I count:
> P
> H
> H1
> H2
> H3
> H4
> H5
> H6
> TABLE
> THEAD
> TBODY
> TR
> TH
> TD
> LIST
> LI
> SPAN
> Document
> Article
> Section
>
>
> Which makes 20. There are a number of inline styles that aren't
> supported (e.g. code, quote) and there may be others that are supported
> that I'm not sure of (e.g. TOC).
>
> I think that the situation is a little better than you are characterizing.
>
> AWK
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Olaf Drümmer < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > On 18 Feb 2015, at 23:50, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > InDesign only recognizes a handful of standard PDF tags. I can't
> > > find the list right now, but I am pretty sure it is in the help.
> > > InDesign knows <Table>, <Tr> and <Td>, for example, but not <TH> or
> > > something like
> > that.
> >
> > it does handle <TH> quite well (at least for column headers).
> >
> > > PDF tags are case sensitive, so if you create an h1 Tag for your
> > > inDesign document, it gets mapped to the <P> tag in the PDF.
> > > However, creating the
> > > H1 tag in inDesign, it correctly gets mapped to H1 in the PDF.
> >
> > nope. What you actually do is do assign a certain tag to your style
> > sheet which then gets used during export (and via role mapping in the
> > resulting PDF. The list offered here consists of only H1 through H6
> > and P (yep, that's it, except for <H> which you do not want to use, and
> 'Artifact'
> > which is not a tag, but can be handy at times). Most other stuff is
> > just handled properly by Indesign, at least for stuff like lists and
> > tables (with some limitations - e.g. no row headers, no complex table
> > structures) and footnotes and figures and links and (CS 6 or newer) form
> fields.
> >
> > Some of the glaring omissions are lack of support for table of
> > contents (TOC / TOCI), something as easy as Caption, or BlockQuote,
> > Quote, Formula (accompanied by lack of support for something like
> MathML) and a few others.
> >
> > So the statement
> > > InDesign only recognizes a handful of standard PDF tags.
> >
> > has to be turned into its opposite:
> > > InDesign supports a a lot of standard PDF tags.
> >
> > with the following addition:
> > > With some very unfortunate [seemingly easy to implement/support]
> > omissions, like support for Caption, or BlockQuote, Quote, Formula and
> > a few others.
> >
> >
> > Olaf
> >
> >
> > > > > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > >