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Re: The W3C Markup Validator

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From: Geoff Deering
Date: Oct 6, 2017 4:54PM

John Foliot,

This is immensely helpful.

Even though I have a lot less cognitive ability/energy you have given me
enough info and references to start looking in this area. Thanks

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 9:22 AM, John Foliot < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Sorry, that should have read: "...discourage use of older versions of
> HTML as strongly as possible..."
>
> JF
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:21 PM, John Foliot < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Geoff,
>>
>> The short answer is, yes, without you adjusting the validator, it is
>> validating against HTML 5 (Question, which validator are you using? I might
>> suggest you check out https://validator.w3.org/nu/ if you haven't
>> already.)
>>
>> One thing about HTML 5 (and onwards) is that there is no longer a concept
>> of versioned "DocType" (as browsers pretty much ignored them anyway), which
>> is why in HTML 5 all you need to write is <!DOCTYPE html> and you're good
>> to go.
>>
>> While I've lost track of all of the ins-and-outs of what is happening
>> currently with HTML 5
>> (I'm currently neck-deep in WCAG 2.1 work)
>> , I do recall a W3C discussion to effectively obsolete all previous
>> versions of HTML (this is unconfirmed, and there is some discussion over
>> whether they want to say deprecated, obsoleted, or superseded but the net
>> effect would be the same: discourage use of older versions of HTML 5 as
>> strongly as possible).
>>
>> > I've also got little idea how to apply semantic richness to HTML5....
>> how do <strong> etc work in HTML5?
>>
>> Yikes! An answer to that question would warrant a book
>> by itself (I'll happily recommend the first HTML 5 book published, by
>> Bruce Lawson and Remi Sharp: https://www.amazon.com/Introdu
>> cing-HTML5-Voices-That-Matter/dp/0321784421)
>>
>> But specific to the question about <strong>, the spec says this:
>>
>> The strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element>
>> element represents <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#represents> strong
>> importance, seriousness, or urgency for its contents.
>>
>> *Importance*: The strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> element
>> can be used in a heading, caption, or paragraph to distinguish the part
>> that really matters from other parts of the that might be more detailed,
>> more jovial, or merely boilerplate.
>>
>> For example, the first word of the previous paragraph is marked up with
>> strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> to
>> distinguish it from the more detailed text in the rest of the paragraph.
>>
>> *Seriousness*: The strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> element
>> can be used to mark up a warning or caution notice.
>>
>> *Urgency*: The strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> element
>> can be used to denote contents that the user needs to see sooner than other
>> parts of the document.
>>
>> The relative level of importance of a piece of content is given by its
>> number of ancestor strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> elements;
>> each strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element> element
>> increases the importance of its contents.
>> Changing the importance of a piece of text with the strong
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element>
>> element does not change the meaning of the sentence.
>> (https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element
>> )
>>
>> That's the *semantic* meaning of <strong> in HTML5: as to how it "works"
>> is really dependant on how the user-agent chooses to express the semantics.
>> In browsers today the default visual representation still is a bolding of
>> the text.
>>
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> JF
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Geoff Deering < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I've been out of the Web Accessibility domain for around 15 years... age
>>> and disability. I use to contribute to the W3C Guidelines in this area,
>>> so
>>> I had a reasonable handle on this.
>>>
>>> I was in the process of writing an article on Web Standards and
>>> Compassion
>>> and Wisdom for an online magazine.... which I feel passionate about...
>>> but
>>> I've been stopped in my tracks by The W3C Markup Validator (
>>> https://validator.w3.org/)
>>>
>>> If anyone can please explain to me what is going on with the W3C
>>> Validator
>>> I'd appreciate it.
>>>
>>> I thought that all the DTDs would be backward compatible. It doesn't
>>> seem
>>> so. Even the code on this example no longer validates...
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Validating_your_HTML#How_to_validate_your_pages
>>>
>>> Actually, I've gone through so many web sites that are from people who
>>> know
>>> these standards, and I can't find any that are not showing errors. These
>>> people know these standards well and how to apply them.
>>>
>>> So what is happening with the W3C Validator?
>>>
>>> The only instances I see of no errors and just warnings are where the
>>> doctype is declared in the HTML5 declaration <!DOCTYPE html>.
>>>
>>> I've also got little idea how to apply semantic richness to HTML5.... how
>>> do <strong> etc work in HTML5?
>>>
>>> But back to the W3C validator, what is going on with it... is it now only
>>> validating HTML5? That's the way it appears to me.
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>> Geoff Deering
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>
>
>
>
> --
> John Foliot
> Principal Accessibility Strategist
> Deque Systems Inc.
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>