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Re: Visibly hidden headings to label regions and landmarks

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sep 2, 2020 4:16AM

Our (admittedly limited) user testing backs that up, which is why I
only focus on marking header, main and footer as landmarks, rest is,
well, technically nice but practically doesn't do much, and too many
landmarks are confusing in any case.

On 9/2/20, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> That's been my experience in our user testing. I am certain no one has ever
> used regions to navigate and I don't even remember people commenting on
> them. I suspect they are only used by the top few percent of the most
> proficient and technologically aware screen reader users, but we
> intentionally exclude people like that from most of our user testing
> projects.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Murphy, Sean
> Sent: 02 September 2020 10:47
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> landmarks
>
> David,
>
> Not many users from my experience know how to navigate by regions or
> understand the concept. If there is solid research proving this otherwise,
> please share.
>
> Regards
> Sean Murphy
>
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Senior Digital System specialist (Accessibility) Telstra
> Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917 Digital Systems Launch Page
> Accessibility Single source of Truth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of David
> Engebretson Jr.
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:38 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> landmarks
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation – be
> cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> I think using region naming and a visibly hidden heading directly after the
> region naming as a great way to make sure that folks who navigate by
> headings, and folks who navigate by regions, will get equal structural
> information as to the regions that make up the web page.
>
> It might be "noisy" to a screen reader user who is navigating by arrow keys
> but I don't think, and the screen reader survey seems to agree
> statistically, that all screen reader users navigate pages in the same way.
> Personally I know that regions should give me a quick glimpse of the visual
> sections of the page and headings should give me context to the textual
> content of the page, but I don't think most of us screen reader users are as
> savvy as those of us in the web accessibility field.
>
> The more opportunity for equal access the better, in my opinion.
>
> Best,
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Murphy, Sean
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 4:30 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> landmarks
>
> From a screen reader point of view. I see this as screen noise. If I have a
> region with the exact name as the heading, which is the next line. Then
> there is no added value due to both elements are page section components.
> This is over usage of aria when it is not required.
>
>
> If it actually fails a SC. This time of morning, I cannot recall our
> internal discussions on this point. As we have had them. My guidance is to
> use one or the other. As you don't need to have headings on a page if they
> are visually design that way. If you have headings visually designed, then
> you don't need the region section.
>
> Sean
>
> Regards
> Sean Murphy
>
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Senior Digital System specialist (Accessibility) Telstra
> Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917 Digital Systems Launch Page
> Accessibility Single source of Truth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Vaibhav Saraf
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 3:47 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and landmarks
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation – be
> cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have observed that many of the developers associate the visibly hidden
> headings with the page regions mostly with the use of aria-labelled-by
> attribute. So they will be announced to the screen reader as, for instance,
> navigation landmark (+) heading label (+) heading level. Many of the
> Google's websites extensively use this approach.
>
> I have also seen another implementation where the first element inside a
> region is a visibly hidden heading. They aren'y programmatically associated
> in the case. They work exactly the same with NVDA and JAWS as in the first
> case. My friend told me that this approach will face badly with VoiceOver, I
> have never used VO so seeking information about the same.
>
> How well is the thought of providing the label as a heading, what I prefer
> is that labelling should be done using 'aria-label' attribute and headings
> probably should be available to all. However this approach looks good as
> long it serves a pleasant experience to most combinations of browser and
> SRs.In my understanding WCAG has no direct emphasis around the topic I want
> to discuss or probably I am not able to understand it. I seek your opinion
> about the scenario.
>
> Thanks,
> Vaibhav
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


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