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Re: Visibly hidden headings to label regions and landmarks

for

From: Vaibhav Saraf
Date: Sep 2, 2020 5:08AM

>On 9/2/20, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> That's been my experience in our user testing. I am certain no one has
ever
> used regions to navigate and I don't even remember people commenting on
> them. I suspect they are only used by the top few percent of the most
> proficient and technologically aware screen reader users, but we
> intentionally exclude people like that from most of our user testing
So this actually looks to be a good idea from user experience point of
view. Also this piece of knowledge is fascinating to me, what I first
learnt was to navigate through landmarks.

Thanks all for the insights!!



On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 15:46, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
<EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Our (admittedly limited) user testing backs that up, which is why I
> only focus on marking header, main and footer as landmarks, rest is,
> well, technically nice but practically doesn't do much, and too many
> landmarks are confusing in any case.
>
> On 9/2/20, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > That's been my experience in our user testing. I am certain no one has
> ever
> > used regions to navigate and I don't even remember people commenting on
> > them. I suspect they are only used by the top few percent of the most
> > proficient and technologically aware screen reader users, but we
> > intentionally exclude people like that from most of our user testing
> > projects.
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > Murphy, Sean
> > Sent: 02 September 2020 10:47
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> > landmarks
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Not many users from my experience know how to navigate by regions or
> > understand the concept. If there is solid research proving this
> otherwise,
> > please share.
> >
> > Regards
> > Sean Murphy
> >
> >
> >
> > Sean Murphy | Senior Digital System specialist (Accessibility) Telstra
> > Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> > Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917 Digital Systems Launch Page
> > Accessibility Single source of Truth
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> David
> > Engebretson Jr.
> > Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:38 AM
> > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> > landmarks
> >
> > [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation – be
> > cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
> >
> > I think using region naming and a visibly hidden heading directly after
> the
> > region naming as a great way to make sure that folks who navigate by
> > headings, and folks who navigate by regions, will get equal structural
> > information as to the regions that make up the web page.
> >
> > It might be "noisy" to a screen reader user who is navigating by arrow
> keys
> > but I don't think, and the screen reader survey seems to agree
> > statistically, that all screen reader users navigate pages in the same
> way.
> > Personally I know that regions should give me a quick glimpse of the
> visual
> > sections of the page and headings should give me context to the textual
> > content of the page, but I don't think most of us screen reader users
> are as
> > savvy as those of us in the web accessibility field.
> >
> > The more opportunity for equal access the better, in my opinion.
> >
> > Best,
> > David
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > Murphy, Sean
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 4:30 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and
> > landmarks
> >
> > From a screen reader point of view. I see this as screen noise. If I
> have a
> > region with the exact name as the heading, which is the next line. Then
> > there is no added value due to both elements are page section components.
> > This is over usage of aria when it is not required.
> >
> >
> > If it actually fails a SC. This time of morning, I cannot recall our
> > internal discussions on this point. As we have had them. My guidance is
> to
> > use one or the other. As you don't need to have headings on a page if
> they
> > are visually design that way. If you have headings visually designed,
> then
> > you don't need the region section.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > Regards
> > Sean Murphy
> >
> >
> >
> > Sean Murphy | Senior Digital System specialist (Accessibility) Telstra
> > Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> > Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917 Digital Systems Launch Page
> > Accessibility Single source of Truth
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > Vaibhav Saraf
> > Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2020 3:47 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Visibly hidden headings to label regions and landmarks
> >
> > [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation – be
> > cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I have observed that many of the developers associate the visibly hidden
> > headings with the page regions mostly with the use of aria-labelled-by
> > attribute. So they will be announced to the screen reader as, for
> instance,
> > navigation landmark (+) heading label (+) heading level. Many of the
> > Google's websites extensively use this approach.
> >
> > I have also seen another implementation where the first element inside a
> > region is a visibly hidden heading. They aren'y programmatically
> associated
> > in the case. They work exactly the same with NVDA and JAWS as in the
> first
> > case. My friend told me that this approach will face badly with
> VoiceOver, I
> > have never used VO so seeking information about the same.
> >
> > How well is the thought of providing the label as a heading, what I
> prefer
> > is that labelling should be done using 'aria-label' attribute and
> headings
> > probably should be available to all. However this approach looks good as
> > long it serves a pleasant experience to most combinations of browser and
> > SRs.In my understanding WCAG has no direct emphasis around the topic I
> want
> > to discuss or probably I am not able to understand it. I seek your
> opinion
> > about the scenario.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vaibhav
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> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
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>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >