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Re: Hidden headings with aria-labelledby or just aria-label best for for labelling landmark regions?

for

From: Jim Homme
Date: Jul 25, 2018 8:13AM


Hi,
We use skip links even if a page is marked up with landmarks because they work best for people with motor disabilities. Personally, I usually try to hit the number 1 when a page loads. I'm a screen reader user. I never hit the skip link if there is one, because that causes so much chatter that it takes too long to figure out where I am once the verbalization settles down. That, and sometimes skip links don't work even though they are there.

Jim



==========
Jim Homme
Product Manager
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
People with disabilities, access job openings at https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Robert Fentress
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 3:02 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden headings with aria-labelledby or just aria-label best for for labelling landmark regions?

Thanks, Steve. That's some very useful info.

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 1:40 PM Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Of the participants who have expressed an opinion, every one of them
> expects the <h1> to be at the top of the main content - they really
> don't care if it is preceded by lower heading levels. Behaviours I
> have observed over 14 years of user testing include:
>
> 1. Very few screen reader users use skip links even when they are
> provided and work correctly. Most people never even hear them because
> the screen reader goes into SayAll mode when a page loads, and they
> just stop it and start navigating from wherever it stopped.
>
> 2. Very few screen reader users use the number keys to jump directly
> to an <h1>. Almost all press the H key repeatedly till they hear the
> <h1>. This is only slightly less efficient and it's slightly easier to
> find the H key than the 1 key.
>
> 3. Consistency of structure within a page and between pages is far
> more important than perfect nesting of headings.
>
> 4. I have not seen anyone navigate by landmarks. With the exception of
> "obvious" landmarks such as main and navigation, most people don't
> know what the landmarks are for. As such, they are regarded as noise.
> That's not to say we shouldn't use them, but at the moment they are
> not understood well enough to be useful.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Robert Fentress
> Sent: 23 July 2018 18:23
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden headings with aria-labelledby or just
> aria-label best for for labelling landmark regions?
>
> Also, assuming the `<nav>`s and search regions are before the
> `<main>`, do you usually use `<h2>` for those? I think the `<h1>`
> should be reserved for the first thing in `<main>`, so screen reader
> users can use key commands to skip to the main content. It seems bad
> to me to have the document outline set up like that, but I guess
> certain page layouts necessitate it if you are using aria-labelledby
> (another reason for aria-label).
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:57 AM Steve Green <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > That's my experience from user testing. I watch what keystrokes
> > people use as well as listening to JAWS' audio output, and I don't
> > recall any participants ever navigating by landmarks. Obviously some
> > people do, but I have yet to encounter one.
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
> > Of Jonathan Avila
> > Sent: 23 July 2018 16:20
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden headings with aria-labelledby or just
> > aria-label best for for labelling landmark regions?
> >
> > > . I have not added visually hidden headings for the sole purpose
> > > of
> > being the label for the landmark.
> >
> > I'm assuming authors do this to support users who may navigate by
> > heading and not landmarks -- but they also associate them to benefit
> > people who navigate by landmarks. I'm not commenting on whether
> > this is
> good or bad
> > -- but just a guess on why authors do this. My understanding is that
> > many users navigate by heading rather than landmark from looking at
> > the WebAIM screen reader user survey.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Jonathan Avila
> > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > Level Access
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > 703.637.8957 office
> >
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> >
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> prohibited.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of glen walker
> > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:59 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden headings with aria-labelledby or just
> > aria-label best for for labelling landmark regions?
> >
> > Hi Steve. What in particular about using aria-label on a <nav> is
> > bad on farmers.gov?
> >
> > I could see some overkill on their site, but it still works. They
> > have a <nav> inside a <nav> (for the main navigation), which isn't
> > recommended but is not illegal from an html spec perspective. They
> > also use the word "navigation" in their labels for their <nav>
> > elements so you'll hear the word "navigation" twice, once for the
> > label and once because it's the type of landmark.
> >
> > I consider both of these issues a developer problem and not a
> > problem with using a label on a <nav>.
> >
> > Ignoring <nav> at the moment, I've had headings in landmarks before
> > and used them as the aria-labelledby of the landmark but only
> > because it was natural to have a (visible) heading in the landmark.
> > I have not added visually hidden headings for the sole purpose of
> > being the label for the landmark. I don't see the purpose of that.
> > Just use an aria-label instead. If the heading isn't really the
> > label for a section (and I use the word "section" generically, not
> > as a landmark element), then you shouldn't have a heading. It would
> > add confusion to
> the page outline.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:08 AM, Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City,
> > MO < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've found that putting aria-label on a <nav> element can also be
> > > problematic. See farmers.gov for an example.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
> --
> *Rob Fentress*
> *Web Accessibility Solutions Designer* Accessible Technologies at
> Virginia Tech Electronic Business Card (vCard) <
> http://search.vt.edu/search/person.vcf?person=1154847>;
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> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
*Rob Fentress*
*Web Accessibility Solutions Designer*
Accessible Technologies at Virginia Tech Electronic Business Card (vCard) <http://search.vt.edu/search/person.vcf?person=1154847>;
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<https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-fentress-aa0b609?trk=profile-badge>
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