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Re: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.

for

From: paul.creedy
Date: Jul 22, 2004 9:46AM


I don't know about US or worldwide figures, but in the UK the RNIB at www.rnib.org.uk may be able to help you with stats.
 
Paul <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
WebAIM Discussion List Digest 22.07.2004.------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: total number of screen readersDate: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:41:46 -0600Hey. I am currently doing research for my company for an article about web accessibility. I need a ballpark figure of how many people (US or worldwide) use screen reader software. I tried asking GW Micro for their sales figures, but they wouldn't tell me. i have also asked the makers of JAWS, but that figure would not be very accurate, since there are so many other screen readers out there. Does anybody know where I could find an estimate of the total number of people who use screen readers?Gary------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: Flash
intoDate: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:59:04 -0600I would suggest having your index page be something that has 2 links: &quot;flash&quot; and &quot;non-flash&quot;, then they click either link they want.------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:00:40 -0600I have an interesting delima.&amp;nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our organization and am including a site map.&amp;nbsp; My problem is this:&amp;nbsp; Within major sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&amp;nbsp; A program may include training so there is a link to training for example.&amp;nbsp; This does not pose a problem for the pages within the section.&amp;nbsp; However when those links are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that say
&quot;training.&quot;&amp;nbsp;Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.&amp;nbsp;A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.&amp;nbsp; However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very annoying as well.&amp;nbsp;Any suggestions from this group?&amp;nbsp;Thanks,&amp;nbsp;Mike Moore------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:14:42 -0600I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none so that doesn't
work.hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;Sandra ClarkFrom: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I have an interesting delima.&amp;nbsp; I am working on a new web site for our organization and am including a site map.&amp;nbsp; My problem is this:&amp;nbsp; Within major sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar.&amp;nbsp; A program may include training so there is a link to training for example.&amp;nbsp; This does not pose a problem for the pages within the section.&amp;nbsp; However when those links are listed within the site map there is an issue -
several links that say &quot;training.&quot;&amp;nbsp;Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.&amp;nbsp;A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.&amp;nbsp; However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very annoying as well.&amp;nbsp;Any suggestions from this group?&amp;nbsp;Thanks,&amp;nbsp;Mike Moore------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:31:58 -0600check out the new article on the Webaim website:An Accessible Method of Hiding HTML Content-----Original Message-----From: &quot;sllists&quot; To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:31
-0400Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the programname wrapped in a . Unfortunately Jaws honorsdisplay:none so that doesn't work..hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}Training for ProgramSandra Clark_____ From: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I have an interesting delima. I am working on a new web site for ourorganization and am including a site map. My problem is this: Within majorsections of the site which provide resources relating to different programsthat we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar. A programmay include training so
there is a link to training for example. This doesnot pose a problem for the pages within the section. However when thoselinks are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links thatsay &quot;training.&quot;Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the linklist feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links..However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to thatprogram would likely be very annoying as well.Any suggestions from this group?Thanks,Mike MooreShane AndersonProgrammer AnalystWeb Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:24:57 -0600I have read the article that you mentioned
but I am still concerned aboutthe annoyance factor of adding the program name to the links - each sectionwould need to have seven or eight links with the hidden program name. Thescreen reader would read &quot;program training&quot; &quot;program schedule&quot; &quot;programparticipants&quot; etc. Then again maybe I am just being overly cautious.Mike-----Original Message-----From: Shane [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:32 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1check out the new article on the Webaim website:An Accessible Method of Hiding HTML Content-----Original Message-----From: &quot;sllists&quot; To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:31 -0400Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the programname wrapped in a
. Unfortunately Jaws honorsdisplay:none so that doesn't work .hidden{ width:1px; position:absolute;left:0; top:-100px; height:1px; overflow:hidden; }Training for ProgramSandra Clark_____ From: mmoore [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I have an interesting delima. I am working on a new web site for ourorganization and am including a site map. My problem is this: Within majorsections of the site which provide resources relating to different programsthat we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar. A programmay include training so there is a link to training for example. This doesnot pose a problem for the pages within the section. However when thoselinks are listed within the site map there is an issue -
several links thatsay &quot;training.&quot;Bobby correctly flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.A visitor using a screen reader who visits the site map then uses the linklist feature of their browser will be confused by the duplicate named links.However, to add the program name to all of the links relating to thatprogram would likely be very annoying as well.Any suggestions from this group?Thanks,Mike MooreShane AndersonProgrammer AnalystWeb Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)----To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: total number of screen readersDate: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:40:44 -0600Well, why not check with your local society for the blind? In Canada, itsthe CNIB (Canadian National Institute for the Blind) and every country
islikely to have something similar. They may not have global figures but theywould probably have national stats. They would know the total number ofvisually impaired as well as the number who are currently online. Nationalstatistics bodies will probably also have that information, although itwould probably be much more difficult to track down.&amp;gt; From: &quot;garymm&quot; &amp;gt; Reply-To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &amp;gt; Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:07 -0700&amp;gt; To: &quot;WebAIM Discussion List&quot; &amp;gt; Subject: [WebAIM] total number of screen readers&amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Hey. I am currently doing research for my company for an article about&amp;gt; web accessibility. I need a ballpark figure of how many people (US or&amp;gt; worldwide) use screen reader software. I tried asking GW Micro for&amp;gt; their sales figures, but they wouldn't tell me. i have also asked the&amp;gt; makers
of JAWS, but that figure would not be very accurate, since there&amp;gt; are so many other screen readers out there. Does anybody know where I&amp;gt; could find an estimate of the total number of people who use screen&amp;gt; readers?&amp;gt; &amp;gt; Gary&amp;gt; &amp;gt; ----&amp;gt; To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/&;amp;gt; &amp;gt;------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Skip links (in-page links) and the keyboardDate: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:56:17 -0600I just updated a study of the problems and possibilities of skip links athttp://jimthatcher.com/skipnav.htm. The important news is at the very bottomof that page. There is a pretty simple technique to be sure that yourin-page links work from the keyboard. Just do it like this:This technique is less of a hack than placing
the anchor in a table - atechnique used at http://WebAIM.org. The two techniques have a commonaspect. Both place the anchor in some construct with width. That seems to bethe thing that undoes/fixes the IE6 bug.JimAccessibility, What Not to do: http://jimthatcher.com/whatnot.htm.Web Accessibility Tutorial: http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse1.htm.------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ect: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:34:26 -0600Don't take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique recently discussed at AListApart.com (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/) and this code below smacks of the same
thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and difficult for others who work with you&amp;nbsp;or after you to maintain.&amp;nbsp;Why not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?&amp;nbsp;Jules----------------------------------------------- Julian Rickards A/Digitial Publications Distribution Coordinator Publication Services Section, Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, Vox: 705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960 -----Original Message-----From: sllists [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:13 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none so that doesn't work.hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;a
href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;------------------------------------------------------------------------From: <EMAIL REMOVED> ject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:49:39 -0600Not taken personally :) &amp;nbsp;My experience with the title attribute is that a)&amp;nbsp;I don't feel that the use of titles meet the WCAG guideline 13.1 &amp;nbsp;of &quot;link text must be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context&quot;.&amp;nbsp; b) not every screen reader is configured to read titles out of the box (or many of them&amp;nbsp;can be reconfigured to either read or not read titles) so I can't be sure that it would even be read.&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;I don't think the maintenance of it is that difficult, mainly because most of what I would use it for is dynamically programmed anyways. Its a technique, I've found effective, but if someone
comes up with a better way that will meet standards and work, then I'd love to hear it.&amp;nbsp;Sandy ClarkFrom: julian.rickards [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:33 AMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1Don't take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique recently discussed at AListApart.com (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/) and this code below smacks of the same thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and difficult for others who work with you&amp;nbsp;or after you to maintain.&amp;nbsp;Why not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?&amp;nbsp;Jules----------------------------------------------- Julian Rickards A/Digitial
Publications Distribution Coordinator Publication Services Section, Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, Vox: 705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960 -----Original Message-----From: sllists [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:13 PMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1I tend to do this with the &quot;training&quot; link being visible and the program name wrapped in a &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;.&amp;nbsp; Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none so that doesn't work.hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;a href=&quot;&quot;&amp;gt;Training &amp;lt;span class=&quot;hidden&quot;&amp;gt;for Program&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
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